Don´t agree on "synthetic sounds"

[thov72]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here so I apologize for the first post being a bit negative. I love this place and I am very glad that I´ve found it. Now I had a recent return...and I do not agree with Listener ID # 399. He/She described my celtic harp piece as "synthetic sounding piano"....well, I used the "lucky harp" from Badcat samples, which I find is a great sampled celtic harp, not at all synthetic sounding.... the only thing I did wrong was I really forgot to crank up the volume on the mixdown and didn´t use any compression etc.

I checked another return I got and saw it was from the same listener, he described my strings (Spitfire Albion) as "Very synthetic sounding string samples" I even "sort of" understand that because the string notes were very long and they tend to sound more synthy then....but I think #399 still exaggerated a bit.
Do you have any experience with your pieces being judged as too synthy???????????

best wishes and thanks

Thomas

[andygabrys]

Hi Thomas,

Yes I have pieces that have been described as "synthy".

Usually it has something to do with both the writing and orchestration, but often to do more with the specific "programming" and finished mix production. Good samples help, but it's a learning curve to make things that sound more "real".

If you are feeling brace, feel free to lost in Perr to Perr with the entire listing text including a sample track links and a link to your piece.

You will likely get some good feedback.

Andy

P.s. Most productions today beyond acoustic guitars and vocals these days contain some degree or totally rely on samples for realization of the production - and it's pretty easy with some experience to tell when things are programmed. Consider that in some cases you are competing with real acoustic recordings of the instruments in question, and you will that there is a "high bar" for quality.

[Onaginoffegin]

Thomas,
I tend never to use orchestral samples from just one library. Combining samples from different libraries will add a richness and variety you won't get from just one library. Every violinist sounds different. Every library sounds different. Combine them.
Also, adding a flute or woodwinds to your strings, even if it's barely perceptible, will add realism.
See if you can arrange a piece so your drums, brass and woodwinds are playing in the high, mid and low ranges, for balance.
Draw in crescendos and decrescendos at the beginning and end of phrases.
Incorporate subtle tempo changes throughout your piece. Having the same BPM throughout the entire piece will make it sound midi.
Remember that brass and woodwind players have to breathe. So bear that in mind when writing those parts.
Make sure your arrangement doesn't use chords the way you would play them on a piano. Spread the notes out. For example, it you're playing a C chord, try taking out the E and putting it one octave higher.
These are just a few tips to get you started. There are other things to look at like humanizing and learning what orchestral sections play together, etc.
In short, it's not just about having great samples. It's what you do with them.

There are a lot of good tutorials on YouTube. Do a search for "How to make a midi orchestra sound like a real orchestra."

Happy composing.

Henry

[Len911]

What Andy and Henry have said!!

In particular to the comments and the synthy, especially piano-sounding comments though, lend me to suspect the programming aspect, velocity versus expression cc11.

The normal adsr envelope of a piano would have a hard attack (the strings are hammered) and then decay, whereas a cc11 would allow you to glide through the velocity layers softening much of the attacks and transients.

You aren't going to turn a piano into a violin just by tweaking the envelope or using midi cc11, but most sample sets expect you to use programming as well to achieve their best, velocity default set to 64 on every note is going to sound synthetic, because synths, after you program the waves, and asdr envelopes, etc., don't usually have velocity layers to move through, primarily because they don't have acoustics to influence the sound or make them any different at lower and higher volumes.

Generally when the term "midi sounding" is used it means that midi was used very little or improperly, and "synthy" means sounds fake, which could mean a number of things as Andy alluded to, the arrangement, the samples, the programming or midi use with the samples...