How much sub is enough?

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ochaim
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Re: How much sub is enough?

Post by ochaim » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:46 am

Telefunkin wrote:How much sub is enough? I think nuclear is probably sufficient. ;)

I recently tried to mix a track that contained a sub-bass sound on my 5.5 inch near fields (and not the most expensive ones). I thought I'd done OK.....until it came to getting the final levels right and conversion to mp3. I found that the additional compression and limiting of the whole mix followed by mp3 conversion really screwed up the sound. The bass itself seemed OK but the high frequencies (most noticeably the hi-hats) really started to suffer). I'd never had such problems before, and muting the sub track eliminated it. I was mixing to the sounds I could hear, but there was probably far too much energy in the lower frequencies that I just couldn't hear, so it serves me right for trying - lesson learned! Low pass filtering helps, but what's the point of the sub bass sound if you chop it all away? I don't think I'll try it again without a monitoring system capable of giving me a better indication of everything that's going on down there. It did make me wonder about getting a sub speaker, but then I'd have been asking the same question as you Paulie. The replies are interesting!
The video I link to above kinda helps calibrate the sub containing element to the kick, then you go ahead and balance everything else with the kick so everything is more or less even. 5.5" monitors don't typically translate sub frequencies well so you're likely over compensating for that and the rest of your mix suffers because the compressors/limiters on your mastering chain is over reacting to the sub content.

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Re: How much sub is enough?

Post by mojobone » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:17 pm

What Owen said, and I'll add that sub-bass has to be there, for certain genres, but if it's mixed loud enough to hear on 5-in woofers, that's gonna be a problem when it's played in the club. Club DJs tend to have their own sub-bass processing; they could reproduce the 'brown sound' if they wanted, but they don't want the cleaning bill.

EDM, Hiphop, maybe an international dance competition or cheerleading championship, that's when I need to know what goes on below 50Hz. Or trailers, obviously, cuz theaters = subs. But mostly, lossy compression schemes don't react well to excess energy in the highest and lowest octaves. You can push those boundaries for CD, DVD and Blu-Ray delivery, but imo, you should prepare accordingly for how it'll eventually be heard.
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Re: How much sub is enough?

Post by Len911 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:23 am

But mostly, lossy compression schemes don't react well to excess energy in the highest and lowest octaves.
So true!
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Re: How much sub is enough?

Post by RichardCharles » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:10 pm

If you end up going by ear...


I've heard a person on Pensado's place a long time ago say you should get most of your information from your monitors and just bring in the sub to round out the sound. But he said another important thing is to have your monitors at full range.


My audio repairman that repaired my sub said I should try to have a balanced sound. They also said another important thing is to make sure that you are hearing the kick from your monitor and your sub at the same time.

Best of luck!

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Re: How much sub is enough?

Post by mojobone » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:13 pm

Me, personally? I'd put the speakers on stands, operate them at full range, and set the crossover pretty close to where the mains are a decibel down. But phase response trumps frequency response, if we're asking for accuracy, as opposed to what sounds 'best'.
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Re: How much sub is enough?

Post by fuzzbox » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:16 pm

Interesting points! :mrgreen:
I have a matched sub and it's on all the time. There are some roll-off and cross-over switches that I needed to set on my original monitors when I included the sub 5 years ago. I always use varying degrees of high pass filtering on all my tracks/groups. So far so good, I think... I got some comments in the early days of too much bass on my mixes :shock: but it is getting less and less since I've started to reference tracks and headphone calibration plugin. 8-)

To me, or what I have learned over the years and I'm not an expert, it doesn't matter if you have or haven't got good monitors, got or not have a good room or have or have not acoustic treatment. As long as your mix sounds as good your reference tracks on your system (whatever you're set up) you're mix should sound great! 8-)
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