Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

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Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by songmaster » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:27 am

I have taken a lot of advice on this one ( big shout out to Donna ), and I think it is getting closer. Any more advice would be appreciated.

Coffee Shop In Heaven

Driving home one night from Grandpas
Dad and I, we hardly talked
Snow was falling in the headlights
As we approached that coffee shop

Dad said
How bout we stop here for a little while
But I saw some friends of mine inside
I lied and said I wasn't feeling well
It wasn't cool, to have your old man be your ride
So we just drove on by

Chorus
If I could go back to that one night
I'd tell that kid to swallow his pride
I'd hold the door so Dad could walk in
We'd spend a couple hours talkin
Even now, I can just imagine
Dad and I would end up laughin
If there's a coffee shop in Heaven
I hope I find him sitting there.

A few months later, Daddy died
Leaving Mom and me alone
His old work boots sat in the hall
His keys still hung there by the phone

Mom said
I know you miss him and it's gonna hurt
It's best you don't keep it inside
I'm grateful you both had a chance to talk
When he broke the news to Grandpa on that night
That he'd run out of time

Repeat chorus

Bridge

And I will look into his eyes
And be the son I was meant to be
If a thousand years go by
That might be long enough...for Dad and me.

Repeat chorus....I hope I find us sitting there. Last line.

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by rlcmusic » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:36 am

Hi Tom,

I came across these lyrics and wanted to say a few things that sprang to mind……

First off, I think it’s a strong concept / title. My focus has been mainly on the chorus with the following comments because I think the lyrics have potential for a lot more impact if shuffled around. For me……it’s the actual title / hook line that will create the biggest emotion in the listener and I’d personally have the hook as the last line of the chorus. The last line of the current chorus lessens the impact for me.

It could perhaps be tightened up from a “perspective / story telling” point of view. At the moment, although it is the same person I still feel thrown around between being with the boy there at the scene years ago and with the “wiser” story teller ‘going back’- as though he’s there with the kid…..then it jumps back…. I guess I want it to be more simple to follow.

The other main thought I had and this may just be me having a dense moment :o ……I don’t fully understand ‘when’ this boy actually found out about his Dad being ill. He was with his Dad at his Grandpa's but not necessarily present ….then his Dad wanted to talk to him but he didn’t…...then at the same time, he (the boy now grown up) looks back and imagines himself and his Dad sat in the coffee shop laughing (after Grandpa has just found out the sad news - did the boy already know? / is he trying to make the most of what’s left?) . The boy seems reasonably old – I mean old enough to want to look cool in front of friends and probably old enough to be told this news too. Did he not want to talk to his Dad with or without the knowledge? Again I WANT to understand the whole story – for me it has an impact on the listener’s emotion and the song’s impact. So for me personally…. the sad news and thoughts of laughter are too close/direct for me with how it’s currently written simply because I don’t fully understand the story. The overall message is clear but not the details.

I haven’t looked at the verses in any detail but the main line that jumped out at me was the “Daddy died” line……. This line follows the hook and follows the “Oh no realization factor” and I don’t think it needs to be said again so directly and obviously……I’d just go straight to some “less obvious” imagery (his boots / his keys etc…)

To quickly try and demonstrate the story telling point of view and the hook line position / impact, below is an example of how I’d personally try and steer it…..I’d want to seamlessly swing it from what he'd do differently back then if he could to the pain he now has / show the consequences of what actually happened back then.


…………..

If I could go back to that one night
I'd get out that car and swallow my pride
.....
.....
.....
.....
I've taught myself the hardest lesson
Dad, I hope there's a coffee shop in heaven


…………..


All just my take.....good luck with it and all the best,

Rachel

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by songmaster » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:59 am

Hi Rachel Thank you for your interest . I can see what you mean about the story jumping around the time zone too abruptly. You are the second person to let me know that the title should be more prominent, which I will fix. I like the way you changed the lyrics at the end of the chorus. It is a tricky story line. I am trying to make the listener realize that the boy is a teenager and that him and his father do not talk very much, hence the fact , that even though they visited grandpa, it was only his father and grandpa that had the heart to heart, maybe while the teenager was in another room. ( very complicated to squeeze into a short song ) Also, you are right about the line Daddy died. The chorus kind of already explains that. It didn't even dawn on me. That will be an easy fix. I have to find a way to let the listener know that some how the teenager missed his opportunity to learn from his father what his grandpa already knew and then realize it , at the end of the song. Also, the reason the teenager can imagine him and his dad laughing , is just to imagine being closer to his dad, but I can see where the conflict comes in, because it's not exactly a happy occasion. This song is like a Rubics cube. Anyways, thanks for the advice. It's back to the drawing board.

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by rlcmusic » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:36 am

Hi Tom,

Interesting to read your reply......I think then for me the biggest question mark is how many people would choose that type of location to deliver such devastating news? I can't answer that question. This is why I wanted to know the whole story as I did get the feeling that the Dad "would have" told him then and there....... it's a difficult one as I've tried to imagine a story where the boy did know already but that could potentially raise other probs.

Perhaps having the focus of the song elsewhere ie: not on delivering the news would make it easier / more realistic? to write. Perhaps the Dad regularly tried to take the boy to this coffee shop to talk/chat/build a stronger relationship (when he was well) .....maybe the boy always made excuses as it "wasn't cool" to hang with Dad........then the song would be more about regretting all those missed opportunities he had to spend time with his Dad. Even more poignant....when the Dad tells Grandpa, he tells the boy too and on the way home they drive PAST that coffee shop.

Good luck in shaping it the way you want it,

Rachel

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by songmaster » Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:33 am

Hi Rachel Yes, I see what you mean about the coffee shop not being the right place for such bad news. For some reason, that did not dawn on me. I like your last premise, where they drive by the coffee shop that his Dad always wanted to take him to ( to bond ). Otherwise, the only way this song would make sense, is if it had a video to explain the whole Grandpa thing.

I think the simpler approach will work the best. I will have to start from ground zero, but I can probably salvage some of the lines. You have a very logical way of looking at this song. I need to get that part of my brain in gear. Driving past the coffee shop is a real heart tugger, especially if it comes just before the chorus. Thank you for simplifying it for me.

I think the best thing I can do, is write it out like a story before I try and rhyme it ( like I can't help always doing ). That should make it easier to write.

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by BurtHK » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:07 am

I concur with the above comments as I was having trouble with time shifts.

Its about taking the listener by the hand and guiding them - Even with a detailed story I think you can only jumped to one time zone in the verses. Then if your Chorus is right it lives in a kind of 'metaphoric' no time zone and there in lies certain songs timeless appeal. Unless the song is about time/age itself it is just hard to track lots of different times across a song. At the moment I think you have a great start for a short film and maybe that's how you see when you write, but that's not what the listen gets when they hear it.

If you write for your own pleasure then probably disregard what I say and just enjoy what you do. If you are writing for commercial appeal then you might want to lose the specificity of the narrative? Everyone has not always been a good son, daughter, mother or father - whether true or not we all feel guilty in that direction.

Do not lose the Coffee Shop in Heaven (as it i a great title & concept) but the details of the verses should be broadly more common things (as suggested by Rachel) like being embarrassed by parents, wanting to cut the apron strings, pushing against authority, etc. Your story too specific for me to identify with - it is about you (the singer). When you go a bit broader then it becomes about me (the listener) - I want to go 'OMG I treated my parents like that' I better reach for the phone and call dad/mum now and tell them how much I love them, before they're in the Coffee Shop in Heaven.

I hope you preserve with it is a resonating concept.

HTH
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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by BurtHK » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:15 am

I just looked at your original thread and your original 1st Verse

I hope there's a coffee shop in Heaven
Cause I need to sit down with my Dad
I'll tell him just how much I love him
Never told him when I had the chance

Is the basis of your chorus - this is where you build from - because that is what i feel every time my daughter dose something that I know my mother would have loved to have heard about.

With a few lines here and there then your song could also be about joys never had as well as regrets of opportunities missed.

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by songmaster » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:31 am

Thanks Burt I have actually put this song on a shelf for now. Sometimes I think you have to step away from a song to see it in a different light later. I agree that I think the title is worth writing about, and maybe it should be the chorus. Also, I agree that it should be more universal in its lyrics and I will have to take a real hard look at that.

Thanks for your interest and congrats again on your " Tag me and bag me song ".

All the best.

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by jonathansorensen » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:48 pm

I like this lyric a lot. I don't necessarily have a problem with the time shift. I would say, though Grandpa functions as a place to drive from and as someone to whom dad confessed his illness, he's a bit of a distraction. Just present enough to be a character but no real information. I don't see any reason for him to be there. The first line could be, "driving home one night"

I love the chorus. I think it just goes one line too long. Why not end on the hook?
"I hope there's a coffee shop in heaven"
This line is full of emotion, it's concrete, it ties the whole lyric together. "I hope I find him sitting there" is implied by the previous line but stating it is a little obvious. Also it's more of an intellectual line and doesn't have the visceral impact.

I LOVE the images and movement in the 2nd verse. Really well done. Simple, detailed, it evokes so much emotion. In the line where mom reveals that Dad meant to have the discussion on the way home from grandpa's, I get that this ties together the whole scene since the first verse but again, it raises so many questions about grandpa, his reaction, and keeps lending weight to this character who really functions as a prop to the story (I'm sorry if it's a true story - I'm only dealing with it as it strikes me from the outside). Maybe they can be coming back from something else so another human isn't introduced.

Love the bridge, direct and honest.

Chorus, again, I don't see any reason to move beyond "I hope there's a coffee shop in heaven" This line has a concrete image that communicates everything. It communicates death, loss, renewal and hope, an image of the everyday, an image of a close personal space, an image of the lost opportunity, a sense of longing, a sense of solace in the afterlife. All of that is there, why go on to the other line? Also, to say "I hope to find him sitting there" could suggest the possibility that he didn't go to heaven at all and I'm sure that's not what was meant. Or maybe that he might choose to not meet the character which also doesn't seem to fit into the song.

Anyway, any time I have this much to say about a lyric it's because it's a beautiful lyric. I hope this helps.

Coffee Shop In Heaven

Driving home one night from Grandpas
Dad and I, we hardly talked
Snow was falling in the headlights
As we approached that coffee shop

Dad said
How bout we stop here for a little while
But I saw some friends of mine inside
I lied and said I wasn't feeling well
It wasn't cool, to have your old man be your ride
So we just drove on by

Chorus
If I could go back to that one night
I'd tell that kid to swallow his pride
I'd hold the door so Dad could walk in
We'd spend a couple hours talkin
Even now, I can just imagine
Dad and I would end up laughin
If there's a coffee shop in Heaven
I hope I find him sitting there.

A few months later, Daddy died
Leaving Mom and me alone
His old work boots sat in the hall
His keys still hung there by the phone

Mom said
I know you miss him and it's gonna hurt
It's best you don't keep it inside
I'm grateful you both had a chance to talk
When he broke the news to Grandpa on that night
That he'd run out of time

Repeat chorus

Bridge

And I will look into his eyes
And be the son I was meant to be
If a thousand years go by
That might be long enough...for Dad and me.

Repeat chorus....I hope I find us sitting there. Last line.


Best,
Jon

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Re: Coffe Shop In Heaven...rewrite..any advice ?

Post by songmaster » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:27 am

Hi Jon I haven't been checking out the Lyric Lovers site lately. I didn't know anyone was still commenting on this song. Thank you for your interest. I had pretty well given up on this one because it seemed to be getting too complicated and I wasn't sure if the story was clear enough. I have been getting some great feedback and I think you are right about the character of Grandpa ( to be honest I never knew either one of my Grand fathers ) I just thought it would give the song more character, but it just seems to cause more complications. Also, the melody I had for this song seemed dated. I would even go so far as to say, if anyone thinks they could write a good melody for this one, be my guest. I think there is something to this song and a little rewrite ( maybe getting rid of Grandpa ) would simplify it.

Thanks again Jon, you've got me interested in looking at it again. I just have to wake up and smell the Coffee!

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