New Mac for audio recording

[Warmchordmusic]

Hey guys, I have 2006 Mac Pro that cannot be updated past Mountain Lion, and is really starting to struggle with running a decent amount of plugins. I already have added RAM (now at 10gb) and an SSD for the boot drive. I am considering an upgrade to a 2013 Mac Mini (wait until the new model comes out), which is benchmarked at significantly higher speeds than my old Mac Pro. It's hard to believe this little box can out perform a Mac Pro, but there's a few reasons for this. First, it's 64bit, has faster memory, and for less than $1400, I can have a new mac with a 2.6ghz quad core with 16gb of ram and a SSD boot drive.

The new mac pro seems like overkill and more than I want to spend, as my 2006 Mac Pro cost me nearly $2500 and it's worth less than $400 now! The iMac is difficult to upgrade and hard to sell. I also don't want to pay for the display, since I have my own. Does anyone else have experience using the Mac mini to record, and if you're experiencing any problems running a decent amount of plugins?

[kclements]

Hey guys, I have 2006 Mac Pro that cannot be updated past Mountain Lion, and is really starting to struggle with running a decent amount of plugins. I already have added RAM (now at 10gb) and an SSD for the boot drive. I am considering an upgrade to a 2013 Mac Mini (wait until the new model comes out), which is benchmarked at significantly higher speeds than my old Mac Pro. It's hard to believe this little box can out perform a Mac Pro, but there's a few reasons for this. First, it's 64bit, has faster memory, and for less than $1400, I can have a new mac with a 2.6ghz quad core with 16gb of ram and a SSD boot drive.

The new mac pro seems like overkill and more than I want to spend, as my 2006 Mac Pro cost me nearly $2500 and it's worth less than $400 now! The iMac is difficult to upgrade and hard to sell. I also don't want to pay for the display, since I have my own. Does anyone else have experience using the Mac mini to record, and if you're experiencing any problems running a decent amount of plugins?

Hello -

Here are some of my thoughts. I am coming up on the same issue the next year or so. I have a 2010-11 iMac i7 with 16 GB ram. My Mac is getting a bit hesitant with my orchestral plugs.

I think the Mac Mini is a great box. The one big limitation with it is it maxes out at 16GB. That might be enough for what you are doing, but it can be a limitation. (you didn't mention the style(s) of music you do so it's hard to say). Another option is to get a lesser Mac Mini and use it as a slave to your Mac Pro.

As for the New Mac Pro. It is pricey, but also an investment. Looking at your current Mac Pro, you have had it for 7 years. So, at $2500, that is about $357 a year. Not a bad cost for the investment. Plus you have saved the time of reinstalling all the software and the new setup..... A new Mac Pro at say, $5000 over seven years will run you about $714 a year. If you were to buy a Mac Mini every two years - that would be about the same investment.

I guess it depends on how often you estimate you will be upgrading your Mac and if 16GB is enough RAM for you over the next many years. I think a MacPro will prove to last longer than a Mac Mini. I may be wrong. But I am really looking at a Mac Pro (in spite of the initial cost) as opposed to replacing my iMac. I think it will be a better investment in the long term.

Also, I think the MacPros will come down in price a bit later next year - and I think Apple will offer one without the very expensive graphics card, that Logic users really don't need. Right now they are really pushing them for Video Editors/FCP users. Once demand has settled in, I think they will give us some more options to lower the cost a bit.

if you can wait, I would wait until mid 2014.

Just my thoughts. HTH

cheers -
kc

[Warmchordmusic]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I'm very happy with the life I've gotten out of it so far. As for RAM, I stilly haven't maxed out the RAM I can run on my mac pro, as I'm at 10gb right now and Apple says it can support 16. However I did read this online....

*Apple officially supports a maximum of 16 GB of RAM but third-parties have been able to upgrade the system to 32 GB of RAM using eight 4 GB memory modules.

I may see if I can get more RAM for it on ebay and continue to get what I can out of it for now. I can also upgrade the video card for under $200, which I think would allow me to upgrade my OS to Lion.

As for the music I record, it's mainly rock stuff. I will be running drum AU's like Steven Slate and Superior Drummer, but most everything else is mixing based plugins. The Waves signature stuff eats up a lot of CPU, so I've had to be careful with how many of those instances I use. I'm pretty much only using them for bass and vocals now. I recently took advantage of the Waves API EQ's for $79 and demoed them first. They don't seem to eat up a lot of CPU, so that's good.

I'm planning on getting as much life out of this mac pro as I can, so being patient is not an issue. Maybe the new Mac Mini's will be even more powerful..... I just can't justify spending 3k on a new mac pro just yet.

[kclements]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I'm very happy with the life I've gotten out of it so far. As for RAM, I stilly haven't maxed out the RAM I can run on my mac pro, as I'm at 10gb right now and Apple says it can support 16. However I did read this online....

*Apple officially supports a maximum of 16 GB of RAM but third-parties have been able to upgrade the system to 32 GB of RAM using eight 4 GB memory modules.

I may see if I can get more RAM for it on ebay and continue to get what I can out of it for now. I can also upgrade the video card for under $200, which I think would allow me to upgrade my OS to Lion.

As for the music I record, it's mainly rock stuff. I will be running drum AU's like Steven Slate and Superior Drummer, but most everything else is mixing based plugins. The Waves signature stuff eats up a lot of CPU, so I've had to be careful with how many of those instances I use. I'm pretty much only using them for bass and vocals now. I recently took advantage of the Waves API EQ's for $79 and demoed them first. They don't seem to eat up a lot of CPU, so that's good.

I'm planning on getting as much life out of this mac pro as I can, so being patient is not an issue. Maybe the new Mac Mini's will be even more powerful..... I just can't justify spending 3k on a new mac pro just yet.

I understand. The thing to remember is that your Mac is 32-bit. So, any given program is limited to 4GB or RAM. So, you could have 100GB of RAM in your Mac Pro and your DAW will only be able to "see" 4GB. This is where a program like VEP (Vienna Ensemble Pro) would really come in handy. It will allow you to run Waves programs with more than the 4GB limit. (At least, this is my belief. Maybe some others will chime in and correct me if I am wrong. But I am pretty sure I am right). Kontakt has a similar service they called Kontakt Memory Server which let you do basically the same thing.

Another option is to pick up a fairly new but used, Mac Mini (64 bit) on Ebay and run it as a slave. Get VEP (about $270), run it on the Mini and the Pro, and tie the two Macs together. That way, you could host the Waves plugs on the mac mini.

So many options.

kc

[Kolstad]

I run a 2013 i7 Mac Mini with 16gb ram.
It runs very smooth, and is very quiet, which is also nice in a recording environment like mine.

I often have 24+ tracks in my projects and use a lot of plugins and virtual instruments, and I haven't even come close to maxing it out.
If you run very heavy duty software like the orchestral vi's, you might experience limits, but remember that you can always increase the buffer in the project for mixing, allowing more power to the plugins.

I seriously doubt I'll ever need more cpu power than this, but of course software is getting better and demands more and more resources over time.
I'll be set for at least 5 years ahead, though, and honestly thats about the longest any computer will last these days.

So for pop/rock mixing, yes, I think the Mac Mini is a bargain. For the orchestral composer using virtual instruments only, maybe not.

[Warmchordmusic]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I have been running Logic 9.1 in 64 bit, because you can do so even with the Mac Pro 1.1, which allows me to run some of my plugins in 32 bit, and others in 64. Having a native 64 bit machine automatically gives me more flexibility. For doing rock/pop stuff, I can't imagine I'll need more than what a maxed out Mac Mini offers. Its amazing how much the technology has progressed since my 06 MP was released. I'm getting my vdrums in the next couple weeks and then I'll probably save for a mac mini.

[andygabrys]

hey Jay,

I also have a mac pro 1,1, and I run Logic 9.1.8 in 64 bit mode and Pro Tools 10.

I use a lot of the same stuff as you do, with the addition of having a UAD-2 quad card that takes some processor load as far as mixing / etc. I have 20 GB of RAM.

i am at the end of the line as far as function on this one. I have everything distributed over a number of hard drives (5 for samples, backups, and audio record), an OWC SSD for a boot drive that also hosts some samples like LA scoring strings.

I still get CPU overages all the time, and end up using track freeze a lot when doing much virtual stuff.

IMO (and take it with a grain of salt) - putting any more money into my machine is totally wasted. I would suggest the same for yours. Its just not worth the bang for the buck.

I think you have the right idea with the upgrade.

at this point, the cheap money is a mac mini with maxed CPU (and likely not the server model cause what are you going to do with 2 5400 RPM hard drives? that's kind of a waste) with an SSD boot drive, and 16 GB RAM aftermarket from Macsales.com, and a second SSD in the machine for VI's etc. also aftermarket from Macsales.com. Macsales.com has the info on how to add a second hard drive to your mini, and the tools needed.

I think the first call is to buy one new mac mini as your master computer, and use VE PRO to host VI's as needed on your existing Mac Pro as the slave.

Then as money permits, either go directly to the 2013 Mac Pro with as much jam on board as you can afford and sell the existing mini (or even use it as a slave to the Mac Pro), or buy a second mac mini outfitted as the first to use as a new slave, or if the specs have improved from now, to turn the second mini into the new master computer and use your existing mini as the slave.

Keep in mind that the although existing Mac Pros can sustain processor upgrades, they are very expensive, and in the grand scheme, if you are spending 4k on a new mac pro anyways, the $800 to get 64 GB of RAM straight off isn't incrementally much more, and you wouldn't have to worry.

So based on that, I am pretty firmly believing that the cost effective stepwise solution is the Mini.

[Warmchordmusic]

Thanks man. I am pretty much convinced the mini is the way to go once I have some money saved up. I am really curious about using my Mac Pro as a slave though. Is there a place you can recommend that I can read more about this?

I recently put a Samsung SSD in as the boot drive and that made things faster, and have 10gb of RAM, but I max out the CPU just like you. I found that the waves signature stuff is often a big part of the problem. They are truly CPU hogs. I thought about the Apollo like you have and eventually I might go that route, but being that I'm a drummer and want to play all the parts without programming, getting the Roland TD-30k vdrums kit to trigger my samples was the priority for me. I have to young ones and I do most of my work at night when they're in bed. Since a lot of the steven slate and superior drum samples don't require much processing, I probably won't be taxing my CPU quite as much. Hopefully I can get a mac mini by mid-year.

[kclements]

Andy makes some very good points. That Andy is one smart fella

I like the Mini a lot, and think it is a great option. And I like the idea of using your current Mac Pro as a slave to the new Mini - that is brilliant - I didn't think of that. The only hesitation for me, I wouldn't want to be locked into 16 GB of RAM. Although, that's what I have now, and I'm not sure if should spend the $$ to put more in.

cheers -
kc

[andygabrys]

that's a good point Kayle.

I can only speak from my experience right now with 20GB.

i typically have 7 or 8 GB of Kontakt stuff loaded up if I am doing VI stuff. LASS etc. I actually use the Kontakt Memory server, cause it hosts that outside Logic - for only one reason. When I switch projects, all that stuff is still loaded in memory, and I don't waste time reloading. That has helped out recently cause I have been doing batches of tracks in certain styles. With a 1 machine system, I find its more convenient that loading those same samples into VE PRO. VE Pro takes a little more CPU for one thing.

So if I had a machine with 16 GB, I am sure that even 12 GB of samples, plus 4 GB to run the OS and what-not would be decent. Then if you add a slave with another 16 GB os samples, that's pretty deep in sample land for the stuff I do.

Jay - you can do various google searches and come up with specifics, but basically using your existing Mac Pro as a slave requires a few things:

1) Vienna Ensemble Pro to network the slave to your new master
2) an ethernet cable to connect the Mac Pro to the Mini or whatever you have as the master. Then the Mini would need to access the actual internet off a wireless router.
3) some setup on the mac pro to allow transmission over ethernet (sharing). its a pain but you do it once and you are good.

Since you and I are stuck with older OSX, it needs to have a version of VE PRO that works in (my case) 10.6.8 or whatever version you have. That might be okay if you are on Mountain Lion or whatever. You still have some time before support gets yanked. But then this is a solution that fills in the gap.

VE PRO also requires the eLicensor hardware USB key, so if you aren't into that kinda pain, then no dice. FWIW it works pretty well, and I don't have much downtime due to that.

But you can probably just leave all the samples on your mac pro where they live right now. Then you will have to do a little work to build the "ensembles" with the various Kontakt and other plugin Multis.

Hope that helps!