Using other musicians without upfront payment

[collinwarren]

Hi All,

I apologize if this has been covered here, but I did a fair amount of searching and didn't find anything.

I'm wondering if anyone here has had experiences (positive or negative) using another musician and setting up some kind of split of the fees rather than paying them upfront like a session musician.

I have a good friend who's an amazing female vocalist and I often would love to have her sing backups, etc.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Collin

[timbutler]

I would think that either way is fine, as long as you both are okay with it. I would make sure your write up and both sign a simple agreement, though, just so there's no dispute about it later on if or when money starts coming in.

Good luck,
Tim

[Casey H]

Hi All,

I apologize if this has been covered here, but I did a fair amount of searching and didn't find anything.

I'm wondering if anyone here has had experiences (positive or negative) using another musician and setting up some kind of split of the fees rather than paying them upfront like a session musician.

I have a good friend who's an amazing female vocalist and I often would love to have her sing backups, etc.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Collin

Hi Collin
This is quite common. You can either offer the other musician a co-write share or do it as work-for-hire whereby the written agreement specifies what the musician's share of earnings would be. In the work-for-hire scenario, you retain all rights (e.g. song copyright and master ownership). In the co-write scenario, *generally* you share both the song copyright and ownership of the master. In either case, you should have a written agreement. There are some templates on John Braheny's site (RIP John!) for collaboration and work for hire agreements.

Good luck!
Casey

[coachdebra]

The other advantage to setting it up as a WFH is that you don't have to consult your "cowriter" for permission to sign deals. If you share the cowriting/copyrighting - you would need her permission/agreement before signing deals. Unless she's family - that could get troublesome down the line if she drops out of your life (as people do from time to time). You can include a line in the co-ownership agreement that gives you permission to sign any and all deals on her behalf - not sure of the exact language of that, though.

[uncbilly]

Since I record, I trade recording time for vocal time. The big advantage is that it's a perfectly clean delineation between the songwriter(s) and the not-songwriter(s). I get my Vocs, they get to record. Done.

[huge]

So what would a fair split of the sync fee for the vocalist/musician playing on it for free? 10%? 20%?

[collinwarren]

Hi All,

Thanks so much for all the input-- this is great! I'm also curious as to what people think would be standard/fair/acceptable percentage. I'm assuming that this would be a percentage of mechanical fees only? Leaving the writer's and publishing intact?

My concern otherwise would that splitting publishing may make it difficult to license in the future...

[coachdebra]

You can set up a work for hire that doesn't involve upfront money - it's your contract. So you'd offer to split any income from the recording of the song and exactly the number of points you're offering (points = percentage).

I don't know if there is a standard on this. Unlike up-front fees which are often based on the union rate for those fees.

[collinwarren]

Thanks again for the advice, everyone!

After looking at the examples of John's site-- it seems that maybe a good option would be to setup a split of the fees, but cap it off at a certain point. Like say, X% up to but not to exceed the equivalent of union session scale at time of recording. That way it be similar to the clause John has in his contract's about if the work were to be acquired by a major label.

Another option would be a larger split of points until it reaches the union scale equivalent and then a reduced number of points from there on...