Does it Work?

[dynamicalan]

Hello,

I've looked for a collaborator on the Taxi forums before and I get contacted back and we connect only to find that no further contact is made. This is due to the collaborator being to busy to ever make contact or answer correspondence. I'm not a vocalist so the collaborator must be but gigs come up and this gets shoved to the back. I'm not the person that likes to bother people so after a few attempts I stop as well. I always react to ideas but rarely start them but will submit ideas to a idea folder.

This is not about Taxi but other places you may find people. I have found those joiners on various websites and through previous business relationships. One time someone asked me to several month ago; I met at a public place but all correspondence has ceased.

A few issues come up here. The main one is if you're a vocalist are you a composer looking for a lyricist? Or, if you're a vocalist do you need a composer that does production? I know there are many songwriters that just play acoustic guitar and sing. Is it reasonable to expect to get the lyrics first to do the original setting of the song? If you take your lyrical idea sing it and play chords on your guitar or another instrument you are writing alone.

This is not an invitation for anyone who knows to chime right in and state what you absolutely know what I am or I am not. What it is is general discussion if you feel you know what skills go together or what is reasonable when finding a collaborator.

I also want to mention that their are songwriting personalities that go together. This teaching can be found in the book "The Songwriting Idea Book" by Sheila Davis. This a book on writing lyrics.

In order to collaborate the carving out time is required. This means that you write this time specifically on your schedule as an appointment you are required to show up for. Yes, this can mean arrive to the destination on time but should mean your soil is their to write. This doesn't mean meeting together necessary but if you write together then it does. Otherwise it means meeting with your self and then communicating with your collaborator about it. By the way, when you can't, you must communicate. If you do the act of doing it does not terminate. If you don't about Dropbox then that's a good thing to check out.

I won't comment on this post for the purpose connecting with collaborators but I will answer private messages for that purpose. If anyone wants to collaborate and you can sing for the purpose of rewriting then I would want to hear from you. But, I thank everyone for comments on this general issue. There are a lot of listings coming in so the only way to start making money with your music is to start today!

Thanks,

Alan Warrick

[shanereaction]

A great post that probably deserves more of a reply than I can give it.

I have collaborated in the past and at first it was a wonderfully educational and fun experience - the guys I wrote with online really knew how to bring my lyrics alive and we just 'hit it off' both musically and personality wise.

I did however have a bit of a grim experience that did make lose a bit of heart in writing for a while. Basically we were two incompatible writers who shared the same dream. We came from different countries and timezones and though we both spoke English there was still a language barrier - especially with the writing. And the harder we tried to write together the more disconnected I became with my writing.

I've only recently started writing lyrics again and I wouldn't turn down a collaboration in the future but I'd definitely make sure it was done 'properly', some sort of bond has to be formed between the writers, whether it's a shared goal or interest, before any writing can be done.

[dynamicalan]

Hello,

Thanks for your great comment. There are writers of all kinds of genres and that's the problem. I am somewhat flexible of what genres to write in as long as the genre makes money. There are a lot of people who don't take it seriouslyand do it just for fun. However, this requires rewrite after rewrite. But, writers should never be in a place where they have to worry about what they write. The inspirational must be free. It has to be easy for me but then what ever needs to be done I go to work on it.

[AmandaJane]

Hi Guys

I am primarily a lyricist, and need to collaborate to create music. I have been working with a few collaborators now, all the ones (bar one) met through Taxi have turned into serious, professional relationships, which are also great fun and inspiring

I have also met a few via FAWM, which were a great experience but far more laid back and 'for pleasure' as it turned out. But for me its all experience, as long as I know what's what before I decide to start.

And this is what it boils down to if the collaboration is to work -

0. Is a no brainer - listen to each others music before you even decide to co-write. Do you both want to write for the same genre and end user ?

1. Set out clearly before you even start writing together, what your reasons, goals and needs are. That way if they are poles apart you can move away without creating too many waves.

2. If you are working professionally, create and sign co-writing agreements etc before you start writing. This protects both parties, and sets out the % royalties and so on, at the start. You both know what to expect from each other. If they won't sign, they aren't professional.

3. Decide/agree at the start, and get a written agreement to this end, about who is to pitch the music and where and to what, either one or both of you, and how you will communicate this to each other. I have even exchanged bank details at this point.

4. Make sure ALL musicians used, who are not collaborators, sign Work For Hire agreements BEFORE they play/record for you - no exceptions. If they won't sign, they aren't professional.

I'm sure if I sit here long enough I can list loads more but it's 2.50am and I think I need to sleep

What would you add to this list maybe ?

Sláinte, Amanda

[dynamicalan]

Hi Guys

I am primarily a lyricist, and need to collaborate to create music. I have been working with a few collaborators now, all the ones (bar one) met through Taxi have turned into serious, professional relationships, which are also great fun and inspiring

I have also met a few via FAWM, which were a great experience but far more laid back and 'for pleasure' as it turned out. But for me its all experience, as long as I know what's what before I decide to start.

And this is what it boils down to if the collaboration is to work -

0. Is a no brainer - listen to each others music before you even decide to co-write. Do you both want to write for the same genre and end user ?

1. Set out clearly before you even start writing together, what your reasons, goals and needs are. That way if they are poles apart you can move away without creating too many waves.

2. If you are working professionally, create and sign co-writing agreements etc before you start writing. This protects both parties, and sets out the % royalties and so on, at the start. You both know what to expect from each other. If they won't sign, they aren't professional.

3. Decide/agree at the start, and get a written agreement to this end, about who is to pitch the music and where and to what, either one or both of you, and how you will communicate this to each other. I have even exchanged bank details at this point.

4. Make sure ALL musicians used, who are not collaborators, sign Work For Hire agreements BEFORE they play/record for you - no exceptions. If they won't sign, they aren't professional.

I'm sure if I sit here long enough I can list loads more but it's 2.50am and I think I need to sleep

What would you add to this list maybe ?

Sláinte, Amanda

Getting co-writers to run away has been my experience in the past when I bring up a collaborators agreement. However, just about every songwriting book I have read talks about the importance of one.

I'm not saying anything here has happened but it's possible it could. Here's what I would add to an email if I'm not repeating anything.

1). A songwriting team or member of that team must not duplicate a writers agreement from any member to any other songwriting team or other members. This means I don't to be writing a song another team is writing at the same time. But if it's taking to long for me to get something back to you, I should release the song so you can take it somewhere else.

2). Do you belong to a PRO? If you don't, it will be impossible for you to get paid.
 
3). We should not publicly share a song were both working on before we both agree that it's okay to do that. That doesn't mean family and friends can't hear it.

4). I usually write with one other collaborator at the same time and I prefer to have only one other writer on a single song.

5). If we need to add more writers this should be agreed upon before any sharing can take place.

6). The cut should be equal an 50/50 no matter what anyone writes.   I have learned; discussion about such issues can hurt the salability of a song.

7). All expenses should be equally spilt and there are a lot of these.  For me that's the major reason the writing process takes so long.

8). If you are a lyricist are you also a musician and do you sing a little bit. If so this can save a lot of time. This is not composition. it's the ability to play an acoustic guitar part or sing a vocal. Whether or not being able to do this or the lyricist not ever needing to be responsible to do this is the basic reason for this post.

9). Conduct communications professionally. This means not taking a leadership position and not calling names or putting down the other co-writers but stating the facts based on the goal agreed upon. This is taking an analysis approach to figure out what is needed. I like Amanda's point to make sure we are writing for the same purpose.

10). Check in to let the other co-writers know what your doing and when you can respond to questions or input.

I hope everyone like's what I added. I hope to see more of these.

[HectorRContreras]

This is a very interesting Topic, thank you for all the Comments so far !

[HectorRContreras]

I wrote this recently, on another TAXI Forum page :

Evening Catherine

You could always collaborate with some of the rest of us maybe ?

Could be nice

Amanda

Sorry to see this so late, dear Amanda.

Yes, I would, I could ! Dear Paul Feaker has all ready "proposed" ...

Because my Music is very unusual, I think that the Music should come first, and then the Lyrics. Not very good at the Verse Verse Chorus Bridge Verse stuff, (did my best for Peter/FunSong Wedding Song that he asked me), although Hector tried to teach me ... but Hector was not an excellent Teacher.
He was not organized and he would just drop things often, for various reasons.

Or,

The way that Hector and myself we used to do.
Alternatively, we would send each other Backgrounds. Our Backgrounds were very simple Music that would call for a nice Hook, a nice Melody, and certainly Dynamics, and Orchestration. And more ... !

Here, Hector sent me the Background :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1jL95iEVkQ

Here, I made the Background :
http://forums.taxi.com/topic126278.html

PS : Dear Amanda, I like your Comment here very much !
http://forums.taxi.com/topic127920.html

[dynamicalan]

Are you aiming for a specific genre? I find it much easier to start with an accompaniment at least a chord progression or build from Drums then Bass. Then, the lyric's naturally make a melody. That's the way it is for me. But, what's prescribed by songwriting teachers in book I have read is start à cappella and then harmonize that. At some point it really doesn't matter but for me I find the harmonization based on chord degree and substitutions to lead to a creative direction. So I like your idea.