Feedback for piano underscore?

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denalihighway
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Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by denalihighway » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:05 am

Hey guys,
Perspective seems to have wandered on this one. I put it together as an emotional piano underscore piece and wondered if I could get some feedback?

https://soundcloud.com/stasissounds/fin ... 13/s-wJRaP

Greatly appreciated as always,
Gar

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by andygabrys » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:22 am

I like it

but....if it were me:

I usually make 2:00 to 2:30 instrumental cues. That is enough for most uses.

you have one motive that develops which is cool. that is very useful. But I would like to hear it more sparse, building to denser, then maybe 1/2 way through where you go to tempo, have an edit point. A hit on a sustained chord that holds for 2 bars or a similar pause, then starts in with the tempo section. It might be more effective especially if the "tempo" section from 1:45 on might have another edit point. To mentally cleanse the palate a little before continuing.

Maybe have the guitar that does a strum every bar go to more dense strumming (maybe twice a bar) towards the end, or maybe another guitar doubles the melody at 2:43 a little later like around 3:15.

the new melody in at 2:43 i thought at first was a cello with a phaser or something on it, but on second listen is maybe a synth? that might be a little ambiguous of a texture, and could date the sound of the piece. It might be nice to have that either sound more like real strings or more obviously a synth, and then after it comes in, keep developing it to the end. Right now that is 1:15 of the same texture.

ending - its a little ambiguous. For an actual film score, where the scene needed that kind of ending, its awesome. But if you aren't writing this to picture, and thinking the Film / TV library angle, it would be nice to have the piano actually hit the last chord and fade - and for me, I hear this entire piece in the minor key - starts in B minor, and should end on a B minor chord. That would give the editor flexibility to slide that ending up to end the piece wherever they needed to.

my 2 cents - hope the different perspective helps.

one last thing - the piece is very quiet - I got the sense when I cranked my monitors that I could hear the noise floor come up as well (ya know, hiss) - and while you don't have to smash the daylights out of a piece like this with a master limiter etc. I bet you could push up the volume of all your faders a number of dBs and still have 3-6 dB of headroom on the master out and not have a single master plugin on.

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by denalihighway » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:46 pm

Andy,

Terrible advice as always - I don't know why I bother with this Taxi community :)

I jest, clearly...

Awesome input, thank you very much.

I'll practically be doing everything you've suggested to a 't' - because it's probably just the right thing to do :)

Yeah I remember trying to address some hiss and volume issues. will have a look at that as well as everything else.

Mad week this week so will get to it ASAP and post another version.

Thank you!
Gar

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by bobporri » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:13 pm

Gar,

I just had a chance for one listen. Andy already covered much more than I could (or would based on my knowledge), but these are the few things I was thinking as I was listening. The first section seemed long. The second section had more development so I didn't feel that way about it. I think the strings could be brought up a bit as things build during the second section. Nice mood/moody piece I think.

Bob P.

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by johnlewitt » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:27 pm

Gareth,

Not much more that I can add. I think it's very nice (a terrible adjective I know, but it's the best one I can come up with right now).

I like everything, but it is probably too long. Cut everything in half and you've probably got a winner.

John

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by funsongs » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:33 pm

fwiw: the SC graphic... looks like a half-eaten barracuda :? :lol:
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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by denalihighway » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:18 pm

Bob and John - Thanks for that. I'm actually quite excited now about cutting time out of it, it should be much more punchy.

@Funsongs :) - it's not unlike a half eaten barracuda! Sounds like you need to go have dinner though :D - nearly sleepytime on this side of the world.

thanks guys, appreciate it
Gar

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by denalihighway » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:13 pm

Hey guys
wondering what you thought of this latest version?
i have some anxieties over an aspect or two but wanted to see if you shared them. they may not be an issue

thanks again

https://soundcloud.com/stasissounds/fin ... 18/s-Cty4I

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by andygabrys » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:05 pm

Hey Gareth,

just had a listen. It sounds like you changed up a number of things, for me they are all positive changes.

one thing that I would consider that I mentioned before - the piece doesn't end on the tonic (minor) chord. Doesn't really feel final to me, but maybe somebody else with pipe up with an opinion on that.

It builds much nicer now. You could also keep it building. So maybe start with guitar only. Then bring in piano at 0:10. 0:20 you have a little harmony change. cool. Then 0:30 the synth comes in (see below for a sound idea on that). and knock it back to guitar and synth. then again bring in piano. Then in the second half the piano seems to take a more active role.

the one thing that I notice now that you could work on mix wise:

a lot of the sound sources are in stereo. They are either piano or synth instruments (likely stereo) or strings (likely stereo). When you put stuff like that in a mix, by default a stereo instrument has a left and a right channel that get panned hard to the wings L+R and that creates the image in the center of what the sound actually is. Usually pianos show up this way and as you ascend the keyboard you start hearing the keys more on the R side (if the piano is orientated in the "players" perspective). That's cool. Stereo sounds big, and occupies the entire soundstage. Great and necessary especially if its a solo instrument.

But as you get more and more stereo tracks in a production, the L and R sides just build up and it creates (mixer Dave Pensado's words) "train wrecks out to the end of the stereo spectrum...........and you've got all this stuff stacked on top of each other. If it were a visual, you wouldn't be able to see the things behind the things in front........"

So sometimes the answer is to make stuff "smaller", make it mono, and pan it to a certain location across the soundstage, which allows all the other stuff to have its own position on the soundstage as well. Then stuff doesn't need to be way louder or way brighter to poke through. It's visible where it is without anything being in the way. Make them narrower in stereo width, or even mono. Like the synth that comes in at 0:30. If it were in mono, panned hard L, and you sent some of that synth to a quieter short (10 to 30 ms) delay with no repeats that was panned hard R and eq'd so it was darker than the original sound, then that synth would have a position on stage (L) but would still have some size and would give a little balance with the delay on the R.

Anyways, I could go on and on.....cause I am truly a mix geek and this stuff is fascinating to me. Just my 2 cents on a way to make things clearer.

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Re: Feedback for piano underscore?

Post by LittleRedChurch » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:58 pm

Should end sooner. As is the piano pulls you out of the moment. Breaks the spell.

Man! Interesting listen. I really wish I knew more about underscores... If I were screening though, I might want a slight variation on the guitar theme. (Personally I'd add more verb, too). It's haunting! And effective. I know this will be talked over but... You know I was watching House of Cards. Whoever writes that stuff!! :o Mostly piano. Very much like Dustin Ohara or whatever his name is. The point though is he's not afraid to throw tempo out the window. That's not right... I mean lots of formatta. (According to my spell check got that one wrong too...). He'll play his theme... 2 bars, whatever, then wait. Not too long. Just enough to draw you in. Make it human. I don't know if I'm hearing more of that or just paying more attention to it, but I love the effect. Very grown up. It might help with the slight repetitive nature of this. You could change chords of course or changes timbre which you do, but I just think a creative solution would be to play then wait... Play then wait.. Lol. You must think I'm insane...almost..

Really alluring. Really liked it!!

LRC

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