The latest and greatest orchestral VST? What would u go for?

[denalihighway]

Hey guys,

It's time to upgrade from Garritan Personal Orchestra. It's served me well but I want to invest some proper $$$ in one of the heavy hitters, something that will be cutting it quality wise for a few years hopefully.

My only big thing is, in conversations about orchestral software, I've sometimes noticed that some musicians have favoured some VSTs over others from the point of view that they are drier when you need them to be dry - apparently with some of the bigger ones, it can be difficult to escape that big 'Hollywood' sound - and I want the samples to sound as natural (at least as natural as a sample can sound) for a rootsy folk song as they would in a Batman score. I've read for example that Vienna SL* libraries would have better dry options than EastWestQL which is reportedly quite wet. Perhaps that issue has been exaggerated, but its something I'd prefer to avoid if I can.

*I'm not sure I can justify the VSL pricetag though

Ideally the software would cover strings, woodwinds, brass, percussion, pianos and as many 'other' strange/off kilter doowackeys as possible...

Also willing to look at individual purchases for specialised options - like if there is a certain VST for just strings that stands apart etc. I'd say strings, woodwind and brass are my top priorities right now. It would be nice to have everything under one roof though, to get familiar with one interface.

Many thanks for you invaluable help fellow passengers

Cheers and Happy Friday
Gar

[Kolstad]

There's lots of ideas about this online, but after having owned a few of the programmes (EWQL Gold, NI Session Strings PRO, Strings in Omnisphere, VSL Strings in Kontakt, Strings in NI Kore, Cinematic Strings II), my own conclusion is that most advice are much too general and will not apply in all work scenarios.

I think it is true that you will need dry(ish) strings for projects that are not to be "Hollywood" or cinematic sounding. But with those libraries, you will additionally need a really good reverb plugin, so you still can make the strings sound "expensive" and not "midi". Reverb is a big thing with strings, and a big part of the "Hollywood" sound, but for pop/rock and similar uses, the "Hollywood" reverb can get too big or lush, which is not always what you need and want for those projects. Yet, it doesn't mean you can do without reverb, it more means different reverb. But if you have a good reverb, you can make the "dry" libraries sound more cinematic, so in my experience "dry" is definately more flexible. But it's also about taste and sound, which is subjective all the way, so I would also hate to be without Omnisphere strings for some pop projects. Sometimes the strings in Kontakt sounds great with a pad, ect.

Another thing to consider is also if you need the strings to be featured in the mix, and in what way they will be featured, or you just want to use strings as a pad in the background. You'd be hard pressed to get hollywood strings to sound great in a singer/songwriter situation, but even that statement is generalizing too much. For some singer/songwriter projects none of the libraries will suffice, and for other, some of the solo strings libraries are preferable to the big ones. But for starters, I would pick a "dry" type of library, and get a nice reverb (I think IK CSR is nice, and most convolution vst's), maybe supplement with a solo strings library along the way, and after that consider the "wet" libraries with a more targeted sound, if you discover that's exactly what you need. You can go from "dry" to "wet", but not as easily the other way around.

Some "wet" libraries are:
East West
Spitfire Albion (also the solo strings)
Omnisphere strings
Kontakt strings

Some "dry" libraries are:
NI Session Strings
NI Session strings PRO
LASS (also the solo strings)
Vienna strings
Cinematic Strings

So, it not a one-size-fits-all market, and even this post may be too generalizing based on personal experiences and preferences. But maybe resonant enough as a kick-off comment in this thread..

[Fotakis]

For strings cinematic strings 2,for all in one Projectsam orchestral essentials.

[Cruciform]

Not sure how the other guys are defining wet and dry, but Cinematic Strings 2 has the room sound 'baked in'. You can play them without reverb but as long as the samples are sounding, the recording room is part of their sound. As such, I would define them as wet. I have them and love them but have never thought of them as dry.

VSL and LASS are definitely very dry in that the recording philosophy was to avoid as much room sound as possible making them extremely flexible in terms of spatial placement and mixing with other instruments.

In any case, there aren't very many full orchestra package options.

- ProjectSAM Orchestral Essentials (which has been mentioned - not dry)
- Spitfire Albion 1 (not dry)
- EWQL Symphonic Orchestra (also not dry, and also outdated when compared against newer libraries)
- Kirk Hunter also has an all-on-one orch lib but I couldn't recommend those libs based on my experience with two of his other products. But who knows, maybe it's great.

The trend in sample libraries has been towards sections (strings, brass, winds, percussion) with very large storage footprints and you'd find most composers tending to get several of each to cover various situations. Each have strengths and weaknesses.

If you want all-in-one with great out-of-the-box sound then take a look at Orchestral Essentials or Albion 1. But....neither of them are dry.

[Kolstad]

Not sure how the other guys are defining wet and dry, but Cinematic Strings 2 has the room sound 'baked in'. You can play them without reverb but as long as the samples are sounding, the recording room is part of their sound. As such, I would define them as wet. I have them and love them but have never thought of them as dry.

When I dial back the internal reverb all the way, and adjust the release on Cinematic strings, I hear them as dry. I won't argue the strings have been sampled in a room, but when I a/b them with EWQL Gold, I find Cinematic strings dry. But a/b'd to Vienna (which I don't have), Cinematic Strings may not be aS dry. I understand I don't get to define "dry", but maybe we could agree on dry'ish?

For me it's a little bit like the idea of a "clean" guitar sound. That doesn't mean it can't be a little dirty either.

[kclements]

I mostly agree with what has been said, and it don't think there is a one size fits all. I really like LA Scoring Strings and find them to be very versatile. I am also slowly building my Spitfire audio libraries as well and look forward to getting some of their BML stuff when money allows. And I know people who get great results with EW, Cinematic Strings and others.

But I also would say that none of these high end products will be amazing right out of the box. They all take a lot of finessing and programming and tweaking to bring out their best. I spend a lot more time programming and tweaking LASS and the others to really make it sing than I do playIng in the parts.

To me, what's more important than what library you're using is the arrangement. I've heard great tracks produced with very old samples but outstanding arrangements. And awful tracks made with the latest high end libraries but crapy arrangements. My samples started to sound a lot better once I started thinking and learning about how the music needs to be arranged and how to write with good voice leading and counterpoint.... and all that stuff. And not just playing chords with a string patch, but playing each line in separately, and thinking about how and why a particular section would play this passage...

Maybe you already know this and I'm preaching to the choir. But i think it's worth repeating.

Cheers
kc

[Cruciform]

Hey Magne, I'm not trying to pick a pointless argument . I'm used to reading about samples on VI-Control and wet/dry there normally refers to how much room sound is recorded into the samples as everyone adds their own reverb anyway.

[Kolstad]

Hey Magne, I'm not trying to pick a pointless argument . I'm used to reading about samples on VI-Control and wet/dry there normally refers to how much room sound is recorded into the samples as everyone adds their own reverb anyway.

I know, Rob. No worries, and I do agree with that understanding of wet/dry. I was just a bit surprised, as I actually loaded up CS2 and tried it, to be sure, before I categorized it as dry in the post. But after your post and listening more critically, I can hear the room sound. To me it's so subtle, that it doesn't contain the same issues of being "wet" as the EWQL library, imho.

Point I'm trying to make is that even between "wet" libraries, without attempting to be authoritative, there's a difference in how "wet" they really are and how much that will affect the flexibility of the library in use across different genres.

[denalihighway]

Guys, many thanks for the replies.

Apologies for the late reply. At 4pm on Friday I found out I had a free ticket to Electric Picnic, Ireland’s biggest music festival. I was in the car by 5pm! What a weekend of incredible performances and beautiful people. Inspirational.

Much food for thought here on this thread - much appreciated

Gar

[denalihighway]

Hi guys,

thanks again for your valuable input

this may seem like an obvious question...but just to be clear, stuff like NI Session Strings and Cinematic strings refer to "ensembles" etc...but I assume solo'd instruments like violin and cello etc are just as effective and possible in these plugins? The quality of solo instruments is definitely something I would prioritize over the hollywood sound.

Komplete 10 is now looking like an attractive option given it includes Session Strings and Section Horns and some cool piano samples which i'm also v interested in...as well, of course, as the mountains of other stuff I could well do with since a recent upgrade to 64 bit systems, where I lost quite a few plugins. I compose in a few genres at the moment.

Vienna and LA are just too expensive and I can't justify it, some day maybe if the ships come in.

I'm encouraged by Cinematic Strings also, reading about the easy GUI and the animator feature and so on, seems like a forward thinking plugin.

Thanks
Gar