Which master is better?
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- andygabrys
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Re: Which master is better?
here's another opinion on makeup gain on compressors:
What are you trying to do with a compressor?
I use it to make the average level of a piece of audio more consistent. Say a vocal.
So one way to do that would be to just automate the fader like crazy.
Another way is using a compressor like a steamroller to get rid of the bumps. But a compressor is more than just a volume control - it has a certain "sound". It can make the audio distorted with a really fast release. It can also be modelled on a hardware unit that tends to add some "hair" like the 1176 revision A "blue stripe". So using a compressor is partly about making things even, and partly about changing the sound a little bit.
Now if the compressor goes in and out of compression, then you are adding that special sound more and less. By using manual makeup gain, you will hear those points where the compressor stops working (or by looking at meters too) and it might cause you to make a different decision. Maybe we go with two compressors, first one high ratio, high threshold, quick attack and release, second one low ratio, low threshold, slow attack medium release - etc.
But if you have auto makeup gain enabled - the song plays and the vocal sounds about the same level through the song, but it might be going in and out of compression. Adding more and less of an aggressive sound (if that's what you are going for). But you may not notice cause the vocal level sounds approximately the same.
If that is the case - then why use a compressor? why not just automate the fader, or use a plugin like Waves VocalRider that's only job it to automate the fader.
Again - just an opinion on what I like a compressor to do - in most cases I want to hear it working. If not, I choose a less aggressive compressor, or use Vocal rider, or automate a fader.
What are you trying to do with a compressor?
I use it to make the average level of a piece of audio more consistent. Say a vocal.
So one way to do that would be to just automate the fader like crazy.
Another way is using a compressor like a steamroller to get rid of the bumps. But a compressor is more than just a volume control - it has a certain "sound". It can make the audio distorted with a really fast release. It can also be modelled on a hardware unit that tends to add some "hair" like the 1176 revision A "blue stripe". So using a compressor is partly about making things even, and partly about changing the sound a little bit.
Now if the compressor goes in and out of compression, then you are adding that special sound more and less. By using manual makeup gain, you will hear those points where the compressor stops working (or by looking at meters too) and it might cause you to make a different decision. Maybe we go with two compressors, first one high ratio, high threshold, quick attack and release, second one low ratio, low threshold, slow attack medium release - etc.
But if you have auto makeup gain enabled - the song plays and the vocal sounds about the same level through the song, but it might be going in and out of compression. Adding more and less of an aggressive sound (if that's what you are going for). But you may not notice cause the vocal level sounds approximately the same.
If that is the case - then why use a compressor? why not just automate the fader, or use a plugin like Waves VocalRider that's only job it to automate the fader.
Again - just an opinion on what I like a compressor to do - in most cases I want to hear it working. If not, I choose a less aggressive compressor, or use Vocal rider, or automate a fader.
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- DanLuedke
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Re: Which master is better?
Thanks for fielding my follow up questions, Andy. Especially the auto makeup question. Obviously, I had mistakenly extended Senior's warning about compressors to EQ and limiting. Thanks for setting me straight!
Well.... time to go play with my limiter some more...
Well.... time to go play with my limiter some more...
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Re: Which master is better?
I´m learning so much from this thread!
I´d say B and to be fair it probably had a something to do with it being louder, but not in a squashed kind of way.
I think the room is coming through a lot more in the second mix.
How much headroom did you leave when bouncing?
Lately I have been paying attention to gainstaging in my mixes, so far it´s not led to any major improvements.
But I guess leaving enough headroom before masteringprocess could be a good ground for maintaining dynamics while pushing the limiter, maybe someone can correct me if I got this wrong?
It´s a really good track by the way!
/Anders
I´d say B and to be fair it probably had a something to do with it being louder, but not in a squashed kind of way.
I think the room is coming through a lot more in the second mix.
How much headroom did you leave when bouncing?
Lately I have been paying attention to gainstaging in my mixes, so far it´s not led to any major improvements.
But I guess leaving enough headroom before masteringprocess could be a good ground for maintaining dynamics while pushing the limiter, maybe someone can correct me if I got this wrong?
It´s a really good track by the way!
/Anders
- denalihighway
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Re: Which master is better?
I had this forum thread bookmarked in my gmail to read at some stage - 4 month later and I'm reading it
great info guys.
Andy you need to stop writing HTH after your posts, cuz at this stage you can just assume that whatever you wrote helped...a lot
cheers
Gar
great info guys.
Andy you need to stop writing HTH after your posts, cuz at this stage you can just assume that whatever you wrote helped...a lot
cheers
Gar
- andygabrys
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Re: Which master is better?
ah great.denalihighway wrote:I had this forum thread bookmarked in my gmail to read at some stage - 4 month later and I'm reading it
great info guys.
Andy you need to stop writing HTH after your posts, cuz at this stage you can just assume that whatever you wrote helped...a lot
cheers
Gar
hth!
lol
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- denalihighway
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Re: Which master is better?
link wouldn't take me there...hmmm
Crawdaddy
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...sounds about right
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...sounds about right
- andygabrys
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Re: Which master is better?
You mean for the original mixes?rdance wrote:link wouldn't take me there...hmmm
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- DanLuedke
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Re: Which master is better?
Good call coming back to this one, Gareth. On this thread, Andy gave me some of the best forum advice I have ever received. If anybody still cares, here is a playlist with the masters I originally posted plus a remix that Cass did last month.
https://soundcloud.com/danluedke/sets/s ... rs/s-E1xJy
https://soundcloud.com/danluedke/sets/s ... rs/s-E1xJy
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Re: Which master is better?
I take it that Cass's version is the 3rd one? It's amazing how one song can sound so different! Hopefully you find a home for this one soon.
John
John
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