Using separate outs on drum programs

[Len911]

I think we're all in agreement here. Of course you get more options with separate outs, but also the possibility for getting yourself in trouble like Andy said. I went through that same thing with BFD, those basic samples are just killer, but they kinda do need a little more massaging whereas for me, there are many of the AD presets that need very little massaging at all. And I get that thing like Len said, the tendency to want to understand the inner workings, but I think for the most part I do already. It kind of comes back to the "if it works don't fix it" thing. I have spent hours tweaking individual parts only to wake up in the morning with fresh ears and go, "Oh my god what have I done?".

I was kind of expecting someone to chime in say "dude you're not using separate outs, your mixes must suck". But hearing back from both of you, my suspicions are confirmed; it's not worth going there. Now I can spend all my time moving the mics around on the guitar cab in my bathroom trying to get the perfect reverb. Not!

I agree we're in agreement. I think the problem with tweaking, is that the ears get accustomed and adjust to small incremental changes, so unless something is radically changed it isn't going to make much difference. That is until you tweak and tweak until it's perfected, then you listen to someone else's mix and it blows you away in comparison and leaves you back at square one,lol!

[shanegrla]

Hi guys, just thought I'd throw a contrary opinion into the mix. I use Superior Drummer 2 with Pro Tools and, though I think SD2 sounds great as is, I've found I get better results when I do use the separate outs. I used to just keep it all in one track and do the mixing within the SD2 mixer, but I was finding certain things would sometimes get buried in the mix (particularly the ride cymbal).

After using multiple outs, that alone improved the mix significantly for me. And then, on top of that, I would do my own special formula on each of the individual tracks to where I think I've gotten some great results.

But I can't speak of most of those other programs as I don't have any experience with them.

[sguiles]

I have a good reason I haven't heard anyone mention yet: collaboration.
I just output drums tonight so that I could give my mixer more options.

Now, after reading THIS post I'm wondering if that might have been a bad idea...



It gives another set of ears the OPTION to bring up a kick sound or a snare if needed.
I use Superior Drummer 2.0.

That said, normally, I just use their sound and add compression or eq to the track.

[Russell Landwehr]

Yes, Steven Guiles, I was thinking in the same lines here... not having separate outs for the drum parts makes it difficult to stem them for whatever purpose. Say you're doing a colab and you send the drums to the other guy who is mixing. If he needs to make changes to the drum mix, not having them stemmed separate means he's gotta come back to you if he wants any mix changes on the drums. I know I've had this problem in the past when working with pre-mixed drum tracks sent to me.

Now it's not so much of a big deal on "live" band type songs, where the drums are usually treated as a whole (although compressed and eq'd differently within the VSTi). But in certain electronic styles, each percussion instrument can (and sometimes must) be processed/mixed independently and used independently to trigger side-chains and such. Luckily the electronic colabs I've done always stem out the percussion/drum tracks separately.

I haven't found where AD has separate outs...??? But when I'm doing electronic stuff, I usually have different instances of different VST drums for each part... it's a processing and memory hog, yeah, but my PC is managing nicely (for the most part)

Russell

[andygabrys]

Fwiw when working on a collab where the drums need to be massaged in this way (say an acoustic kits for rock etc) I honestly find it easier to include a stereo drum mix of whatever my concept of the song is, and the MIDI.

If somebody needs more control they can just use the midi. Especially if they have the same plugins for drums, and even better the same kits.

You reall can't get better than that - sma files for easy transfer ultimate flexibility.

Just what I find works.

[andygabrys]

That's the great thing of is all working on computers though - there are infinite different ways that you can do it.

And All these workflows work.

[davekershaw]

Great question!
On my last song, I'd set up separate outs, then found myself asking why!
I'm using AD2 and everything is in the box. Great kits, great sounds, compression, reverb, everything's there, so I scrubbed the outs and used the pre-sets.

[Russell Landwehr]

That's the great thing of is all working on computers though - there are infinite different ways that you can do it.

And All these workflows work.

Absolutely... and that's what is so cool about discussions like this... learning new workflows...
(and being reminded there is always MIDI.... duh! )

[jimmymio]

I use Superior Drummer in Logic 9 and, although its a pain to set it up, I use separate outs. I'm sure you can get good results mixing within SD but I do have plugs that I like and I feel that I have more control mixing in Logic.
Can anyone tell me if its gotten easier to use separate outs in Logic X?

[JAMRecording]

When I use in the box drums I always use seperate outs. I tend to bus sections of the drums to a master bus. The more control I have over each instrument the better. I treat the drums the same way I would treat a live kit. Same goes with any sequencer or drum loop program. I want everything in the DAW and to have its own fader, then I build the mix from there.