remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox wide

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remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox wide

Post by JamesCarvalho » Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:10 pm

any ideas on how you do it ?

thanks for sharing
Last edited by JamesCarvalho on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: remastering some mixs, and i'm just not getting the wide

Post by andygabrys » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:44 pm

just to be clear Jim, you are talking about REMIXING some songs (not just mastering right? - cause I am guessing that you couldn't just remaster your tunes and make the vocals sound like you are hearing in your head?)

What are the tunes: Give people some links so we can hear where they are right now.

And what are you hearing they should sound like? Give us some youtube links of tunes that contain the kind of vocal production that you would like to have on your tunes.


And here are a couple general questions for ear training:

if the vocals are wide....

1) is it one vocal with stereo reverb
2) Is it a delay?
3) is it a ping pong delay going back and forth L+R?
4) is there an auto or stereo doubler effect or harmonizer set to a couple cents sharp on one side and a couple cents flat on the other mixed in?
5) are the wide parts actual sung doubles of the main one?

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Re: remastering mixs, and i'm just not sure how2get the vox

Post by JamesCarvalho » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:34 pm

yes andy, my bad / i mean, i'm re-MIXing some drafts ..

i'm also comping some new vocal takes ... now that I've learned the phrasing abit more.
i can't help to be doing some research - on how to get the vocals wide (to the sides if you will)
or maybe i'm just looking to get ANYTHING to the sides for more room in the mix.

here a link to a playlist of songs, i'm hoping to improve a couple and possibly pitch them at the rally.

https://soundcloud.com/jamescarvalhomusic/sets/rock

if anyone does listen a bit, feel free to advise on which one/s sound like they might be worth working on in your opinion..

i don't have any wide vocal examples yet but i will start looking..
i would like to know maybe what you would do with reference to the song.
the one "make it happen" was done using a different microphone recording technique, wondering if i should stick to that. pay no mind to the pitchy vocals i may tune them or do them over.
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Re: remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox

Post by jimmymio » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:38 pm

There are many plugins available to help with this. There is probably one in your DAW. In Logic its called the Direction Mixer. I think they all work on the M/S principle.

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Re: remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox

Post by Len911 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:16 am

+1 for M/S plugins.

They basically allow you to process the mid channel and the sides separately. Brainworx, Melda Production, Elysia, are a few m/s plugins.
A mono vocal would have to be encoded into a stereo or m/s signal first. Brainworx has a stereomaker plugin for example. With an m/s eq you could hp and lp filter and send the lp to the mid and hp to the sides, with two instances of eq, for example. M/S compressors can do separate compression on the mid and side. Bring out the middle or sides.

Generally I would say that you need to determine the frequency threshold of the vocal, sending the lower freqs to the middle or mono, and the higher frequencies to the sides or stereo. That would be the most natural, imo, and the volume wouldn't need to be that great for a widening effect. Though as you said, adjusting the mid and sides also for the instrumentation would affect what you get also.
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Re: remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox

Post by TheElement » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:40 am

I don't know much about vocals or anything but what I used to do with electric and acoustic guitar was to take two identical mono takes and pan one hard left and one hard right. Then move one take forward a bit. This created a nice wide fat stereo sound. I liked it. worth a try with vocals.
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Re: remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox

Post by JamesCarvalho » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:03 pm

thanks len, jimmy, gavin, andy
i'm gonna give everything a try
great info,

andy i like number 4 that might be the sound i'm looking for need.

len i like the mid-side concept but i thought applys to a stereo tracks.
no prob i will be experimenting with doubling .

gavin yes thats good advise double the track pan them and move one i believe .

and with andys pitch one side sharp approach it sounds like i'll be working tonight .

thanks gents ;)
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Re: remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox

Post by TheElement » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:34 pm

jimc wrote:thanks len, jimmy, gavin, andy
i'm gonna give everything a try
great info,

andy i like number 4 that might be the sound i'm looking for need.

len i like the mid-side concept but i thought applys to a stereo tracks.
no prob i will be experimenting with doubling .

gavin yes thats good advise double the track pan them and move one i believe .

and with andys pitch one side sharp approach it sounds like i'll be working tonight .

thanks gents ;)
yeah just move one just slightly..very slightly forward of the other. works great on rhythm guitar.
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Re: remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox

Post by andygabrys » Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:40 pm

You are likely going to want to move the track between 10 and 50 ms. More movement creates a wider "hole".

Less than 5 ms and you get phasing when you put your monitors in mono. More than about 50 ms and your ear distinguishes the notes on the left and right as happening at two different times.

Also moving the track forward may create the sensation that the guitar was way on top of the beat, especially if you play on top of the beat as I tend to do. So it might take moving one track back in time half the amount, and moving one track forward in te half of the amount of delay in a you want. Or maybe even leaving one track where it is and loving the other all the way back.

Proof is in how it sounds.
Last edited by andygabrys on Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: remixing drafts, and i'm just not sure how 2get the vox

Post by JamesCarvalho » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:00 pm

price less :) that i'm writing down
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