the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

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the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by funsongs » Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:47 pm

just yammering; fwiw:
Back when I first got the bug to get some songs recorded, one producer-guy used the phrase
"demo fatigue" while sort of warning me about sharing too widely songs in-progress. He seemed concerned that getting too comfortable with an unfinished piece might make getting to the finish line
more difficult. Or, possibly, that there would be a reluctance to experiment and/or make changes, where there could be room for improvement.

Since observing the creative process being shared here (and on your soundcloud pages, etc.),
the concern about demo fatigue has been reversed. Getting other input as a song is being developed has had lots of positive results. Also, it just seems to be a lot more fun... sharing the journey.
Maybe it helps, too, that it's taking place with folks who are traveling the same path.

2 nickels' worth? or has the cheese slipped of its cracker? :? :shock: :)
Cheese... er, uh... Cheers: ;)
Peter
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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by feaker66 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:32 pm

Peter

Being that I haven't ever had success, it is the only thing I have.

sincerely

Paul
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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by mazz » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:03 pm

Well I think it's part of the learning process. Getting feedback early helps to hone that skill of figuring out what's working and not working before you get too far along. The only way to learn that is to try to understand what other people are hearing that is completely getting by you because you are too close to it.

Part of the process is also figuring out what you want to say with your music and whether or not the choices you have made are advancing the piece in question towards that goal. You learn what feedback is helping you towards it and what is "thanks for the feedback but I'm moving forward with my original vision". Only you know what your vision is, but it takes time and lots of experimentation to figure it out and really get clear.

At some point, yes, you will have more confidence in your ability to make those decisions quickly and accurately, but you probably won't have that skill out of the gate. Demo fatigue might be a real thing, but you won't even know if you have it or not until you've written a lot of songs and had a lot of feedback that you've measured against your vision for your music.

Keeping an open mind and an attitude of learning and a spirit of non-attachment to your work will move the process along more quickly.

Just my 2c

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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by sweetloumusic » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:15 am

"Keeping an open mind and an attitude of learning and a spirit of non-attachment to your work will move the process along more quickly." Mazz

That is so true. I have a real excitement about the learning process and an open mind about changing things in my music, but I have been shy about putting my work in peer to peer.
That's a form of attachment, I guess. I plan to change that.

As you've said before, John, writing for film and TV is more about figuring out how to create music that has the right "feel and emotion" to support the visual.

Thanks to you and so many people in the Taxi community, I am learning and experimenting. I'm so grateful.

Cheers!!!
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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by Kolstad » Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:26 pm

Yeah, there's the getting too comfortable with it at the one end, and getting too uNcomfortable with your music at the other end. Neither is a good place to be, imo. If you get too attached with the music, you risk being too protective and loose opportunities as a consequence, and if you get too unattached to it, you might loose your drive and motivation to make music at all. It can be hard to find that balance, for sure. I think the unattachment part applies not so much when developing your music, as to when you have it signed and are asked to make changes by a library or music supervisor.

But once you find the genres you enjoy doing, and produce a lot of it, you just want to get it out there to work for you. So if you stick to producing new stuff continuously, it will most likely balance itself out without having to think about it too much. The problem with attachment are more likely to come if you produce relatively little music. Then you want to say everything in one piece at the time, which really can block you out. Unattachment can be a problem for learning too, though, if you just do what others tell you, and don't finetune your own tastes and sensibilities to your goals and targets. And who can honestly say they are unattached to their music, if they have developed great ideas, executed them well, and made it effective. In those situations you are supposed to be attatched to your music, it's a good thing, be proud. But for pastiche cues you just have churned out in three hrs due to the opportunity to a quick placement in a reality show, attachment seems unappropriate due to the work you have put into it, due to the nature of that type of music and due to it being produced for a particular use. Full songs 3mins+ seems to be more involved and more difficult to handle in terms of being unattached to it, allthough depending on the target.

So, no complex formula covers all, maybe other than write, submit, forget, repeat. The answers seem to arrive with the practice, and you have to contain different mindsets for different types of work. But like JJ Cale and Eric Clapton sings in It's Easy, "you'll be big, if you don't quit". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kxk11D-mpY
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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by mobster85 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:08 am

The hard part is being emotionally attached to What you have written and recorded. I have used the forum to further myself especially with mixing and overall sound. Sometimes i write something i really like and i want to enjoy it for a while before i make changes but Then i find it hard to make changes because of the emotion that i feel for it. Does that make sense?

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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by funsongs » Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:40 am

mobster85 wrote:The hard part is being emotionally attached to What you have written and recorded. I have used the forum to further myself especially with mixing and overall sound. Sometimes i write something i really like and i want to enjoy it for a while before i make changes but Then i find it hard to make changes because of the emotion that i feel for it. Does that make sense?
Part of the answer to that could be the result of the folks who have the gear and skills to do their/your own home-studio recording and production (provided you have the time, too); so, with that ability and cost-savings, you have the luxury of doing multiple versions of a song...for the reasons you stated.

Make the version that best suits your vision and creativity: if it suits a listing and works "as-is";
it's a win-win from the start.
If tweaks are needed to suit the requirements of another opportunity, you can keep your original, do the other as well. With all the crossover, genre-blends out there, one might get a lot of mileage out of a concept by changing it up. And some of the collaborations I've heard posted here on the forum are evidence that the results can be greater that just the sum of their parts. :? :shock: 8-) ... or, however that saying goes. 8-)
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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by funsongs » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:37 pm

mazz wrote: Keeping an open mind and an attitude of learning and a spirit of non-attachment to your work will move the process along more quickly.
Just my 2c
Mazz
While I appreciate most of the comments, this is one with which I choose to take issue.

Most folks I know, including myself, have a deep affection and connection with music... especially their own, when it is the main vehicle for expressing and telling ones/my personal life stories.

So, in that light, I find that it is crucial that I'm heartily attached to that expression. If I don't feel attached and connected, how would I have any hope or expectation of drawing others into relating to it? If I don't love it, or am not thrilled with it, why would expect someone else to be?

In other words, my heroes are usually those who have stuck true to their heart's vision and journey, even in the face of much criticism. Many of them have walked lonely roads on the way to preserving and expressing what set them apart from others, and identifiable for their individuality.
And, that does not mean there's a need to remain an island, or detached from receiving good advice or collaborative assistance.

Once I heard it stated, "don't share your dreams with those who don't share your dream."
Personally, I really thrive off of being inspired... especially when that leads to another door to a pathway of my own creativity.

Cheers.
Peter
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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by RichardCharles » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:58 pm

Keeping an open mind and an attitude of learning and a spirit of non-attachment to your work will move the process along more quickly.
Just my 2c
Mazz

What I think he is getting at is don't think of your self as a overly emotional, freshman art student, but rather a professional that can separate one's self from one's work product. To me it is total pro advise Mazz is giving you. Maybe I am reading between the lines, but that is how I take it.

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Re: the forum = end of "demo fatigue"?

Post by hummingbird » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:10 am

Mazz isn't saying that you shouldn't feel something for your music. Love it as you create it by all means.

Once you've laid it down and you put it out for feedback, then you need to have an open mind. If you invite feedback with the idea that what you've done is gold and you adore it just how it is, then you will be unable to assess the feedback logically, without emotion, and make the changes that might put the track over the bar or increase its usability.

If you are unable to accept feedback and use it as a tool to improve your skills & knowledge, you will not move forward.
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