How to prevent distortion on this heavily reverbed piano?

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Len911
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Re: How to prevent distortion on this heavily reverbed piano

Post by Len911 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:33 pm

dry piano + duplicate of the above (two signals of equal amplitude and phase)= ~+6db gain.

In the second signal, depending on the wet/dry mix of the reverb, say 60/40, theoretically, 40% is dry piano, just like the dry piano track. Just something to be aware of.

That's probably the reason it would be better to stick to the conventional method of mixing your reverb.
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denalihighway
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Re: How to prevent distortion on this heavily reverbed piano

Post by denalihighway » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:13 am

Thanks for that Len - by conventional, do you mean having one piano track and sending some of that to an aux reverb track?

I've changed tack now, hopefully successfully. Last night and this morning I spent a good while trying the method above, with lots of different reverbs and different piano settings etc, while addressing the problematic resonant frequencies as we've discussed below. Got absolutely nowhere except frustrated.

So, with Andy's post in mind (about changing what the left hand is doing etc), I decided to split the left and right hand into two different tracks altogether because it seemed like it was the bass notes causing the problems.

And lo and behold, I think I've come upon something cool cuz I've changed the instrument patch completely on the bass notes, slightly different timbre, and much drier...and it seems to be sounding nice, and not distorting. I'm liking the subtle combo of the distant high notes and the more present bass notes.

When I have something close to what I'm after I'll post, and hopefully people will agree :)

Obviously, its a workaround, but its sounding like its a better solution and something far more interesting. I've still implemented the suggestions above on what I have.

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denalihighway
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Re: How to prevent distortion on this heavily reverbed piano

Post by denalihighway » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:53 am

Update:
So the filmmaker didn't like the revised version :lol: - coulda guessed that would happen. I liked it, but it was a totally different sound. I was hoping the 'wildcard' approach would catch him.

Went back to drawing board and replaced reverbs. In the process learned how easy it is to find unwanted artifacts for a piece like this and the things I adjusted included:

- EQ resonant freqs obviously
- taming (and silencing) stuff like hammer sounds and hiss from release samples
- being VERY careful, and mostly avoiding, any saturation, maximising or stuff like that on the instrument tracks
- using the right patch - which may well involve choosing a more unnatural sound that won't have artifacts when the reverb is cranked.
- taming the transients (as discussed above). Used SPL for this.
- not using crap and metallic kinda reverbs
- and other stuff I've forgotten

but that's just me...I'm sure someone who knew what they were doing would have a much easier 'go-to' solution.

I think I'm getting somewhere now. Exhaustive but worth it.

Things have taken an unexpected and quite heartbreaking turn in the meantime. The filmmakers dad was diagnosed with lung cancer. The dad lost his twin brother to the same thing before xmas. Jeez. Unthinkable. So things have taken on a strange hue - especially the sad piece like this. Thing are weird. Life is strange.

Here's the latest version - https://soundcloud.com/stasissounds/com ... th/s-TJXWS

Any technical comments gratefully appreciated.
Gar

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Re: How to prevent distortion on this heavily reverbed piano

Post by andygabrys » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:49 pm

sounds good here. Still just a touch buzzy a couple spots, but much better. I think it should work. String harmonics are a little dry and sharp / close but not bad either.

Something to think about when doing film music In my experience where you already have the gig (which is different than production music where you are competing for the gig, or even competing for a placement with different pieces in an editing bay):

I usually don't maximize pieces very much at all (i.e. limit and make them commercially "Loud") - I usually try to get the loudest peaks someplace around -3 db or so.

Most of the time stuff is pulled down so far under dialogue that you don't need to slam it, just mix it well. If there is a sequence where the music has to be loud and forefront the film mixer can maximize as needed. Of course if you are working with people who are really green with audio (like its their first film) amazingly bad things can happen, but with some experience usually things come out all right.

Always easier to maximize the mix later than try to replicate a cue where most of the vibe or sound came from crushing distortion on the master plugins. :)

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Re: How to prevent distortion on this heavily reverbed piano

Post by denalihighway » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:46 am

Andy G thanks for the reply.

I'll go back to this - any hot spots at all is too many. I can't take the aul Irish approach of "ah sure it'll be grand!" on this :)

Thats nice advice about sending over a quieter mix though. My concern is that the guy is also reasonably inexperienced though. I'm guessing he's got it covered but I've actually beeen concerned along the way that he's pinning his system and accentuating the issues. I guess I just need to gove him something with no issues.

I think some more surgical EQ at this point is next/last step.

Interesting points as always. Thanks man.
Gar

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