Eric Campbell & I teamed up - looking for production critiqu

[VanderBoegh]

Eric Campbell and I are putting the finishing touches on this song and would like some ears. Since I'm running the dials, I'd sure appreciate any technical feedback. Looking for the critical ears of all you producers to tell me how the mix is sitting, if anything needs changed / deleted / added. Basically, what could be done to make this stronger if you notice some weak spots.

Been a long time since I've mixed a song with vocals, so I could definitely use some double-triple-quadruple checking! Also, if you could think of any a-la's, that would sure help us out too.

"We Failed So Well": https://soundcloud.com/vanderboegh/we-failed-so-well

Thanks in advance, my friends!!!

~~Matt

[funsongs]

Hey fellas... really good song. I'd say off the top, the ala-s that jumped out at me:
A David Foster-esque song & piano-driven production. With Josh Groban singing.
OR, better yet: John Legend... I could hear him covering this.

I'll leave the brutal techy/mix stuff to Professor Andy & the rest.
'ears what my ears are hearing:
In the intro... up to where the band kicks in at around :39... the piano tone has a pronounced
'buzzyness' to it that reveals it's a synth and not as good of a replication of a big acoustic grand;
which I think would sound much better for this. The full band in, and that gets mostly masked.
Just my opinion: a more realistic piano would do you right by this.

Lastly, possibly consider 'less' accompaniment/fullness at the verses, so that the Chorus pops even more than it does.
Back to those ala singers: they would likely "go big" with this.
Maybe with them in mind, think where & how to get there from where this track is;
which is very close.

My 3-cents.
hth... good luck with this one!
Cheers,
Peter R.
(ed. maybe 'pronounced' buzz was overkill... how about: 'a slight buzz in the sustain...'...?)

[rdance]

hey matt and eric, really great song and vocal!

i think the only question you have to answer is, what type of production direction? which is answered by, what style/genre is this? sometimes it feels as far back as an 80's ballad, given the type of melody lines eric is singing, how his vocal lines resolve, etc... in that case, i would produce it as an 80's song, with big period-correct drum patches and strings, etc...(not sure of that's what you want).

but i could also hear the song produced more as an organic, alt. rock/singer-songwriter ballad, maybe with a rich acoustic guitar part added (i hear some acoustic already). in that case, i would use a more live room drum kit, use those types of reverbs on the vocal and instruments....get more of a 'live band in a room' sound. i think the song would be more usable today if you went that direction.

right now, the song seems to be a hybrid without a specific production direction.

sorry i can't be more specific, so i guess i'm just giving food for thought. love the tune regardless!

[andygabrys]

hey amigos - nice start.

couple arranging things:

0:00 to 0:22 or so - the piano and vocal don't hook up rhythmical to my ear. Contrast that against 2:50 to the end it sounds much more in the pocket.

2:34 sounds like there is a passing chord that only some of the instruments hit.

For me (and this relates to the comments above) its sort of stuck between eras.

The reverb sound on the kit makes it sound more 80's. The solo strings make it sound more intimate.

and the mix could use a different balance to give it the power a sort of slowish tune like this could have.

for me - the vocals are loud, the piano is quiet for being the primary mover in this tune. The acoustic guitar is buried. The ambience on the drum kit makes it sound somewhat in a different room than the vocals. I would look for a warmer drum sound as well, this one seems a little cutting and cold.

consider how those solo strings could build into sections as the song caries on to give more beef and power. Figure out where to pan them so the mix sounds wider and more powerful. Just cause an orchestral section is where it is doesn't mean that a pop string section has to be located in the same space.

figure out how you are going to mix the piano (like wide stereo, close stereo, mono) and how other instruments can be added later and each have their own space. Ref some of the tunes by the Fray for comparison as they successfully use a lot of piano.

if you can find a way to bring power to the wings of the mix, then the vocal can more successfully sit in the center in the doughnut whole. Right now it sounds a little on top.

my 2 cents.

[Kolstad]

I concur with Richard's post on direction (and the details, Andy points out). As is, it sounds somewhat a la 90'ies r&b, Luther Vandross to me, just with an adult contemprary groove. The beat is laid back, no big chorus lift, smooth but not too many hooks. That may be what you are going for, still I think it's somewhere in the undefined borderland between adult contemporary and r&b. You probably don't want to stay there.

So I would consider to jive it up a notch. After 3sec I heard the fantastic vocal and instantly thought.. Aloe Blacc. If that could be an accepted a la, the critique could be given based on a reference of his. Could be "I'm the man" or "Here today". When compared to that style, this mix needs more energy, imho.

That would mean to bring the beat into urban territory, and make the melody lift in the chorus. Maybe jive up a lil funky gtr riff, and dial up a big epic sounding synth. Make it an urban epic "fail"

This may not apply, if you have other targets, of course. So just some interfearing thoughts. I know, songs can be a lot of work, and they seem never ending, but with this great a song, vocals, and producer chops, it may just be worth the effort.

[coolhouse912]

Hi Matt & Eric,

I'm gonna have to go with Andy's specifics on this one. He's onto it.

For me, overall, the mix sounds thin. Too much of the backing elements are operating in the vocal spectrum. The strings in particular are in conflict with Eric.

There's some instrument playing fills in vs 2. I think it's slide guitar or dobro but it's really thin sounding & it's too buried to tell. If it is one of those instruments, I don't think it fits the style of the song very well.

It's still a lovely tune. Just needs a bit of work. Some fixes should put it right in the pocket.

Mike

[VanderBoegh]

You guys are all so awesome! This is JUST what we were looking for. Thanks so much for the time to listen and offer such insightful feedback. Andy, Mike, Richard, Peter, and Kolstad, you guys are tip-top in my book!

I'll get to working on some sonic changes and play around a bit more. Each time I tweak on this song it gets a little stronger, so hopefully that trend continues - especially now that I have some great advice to work with.

Thanks again, fellers.

~~Matt

[johnlewitt]

When it started off I wold have said John Legend was a good a la. The piano and vocal were a dead ringer. But once everything kicked in I lost the a la. I'm not 100% sure where you wanted to take this, but if you stuck with the vocal, piano and strings I think you'd have a killer track.

John

[denalihighway]

I won't go for the technical stuff - but needless to say I spotted everything that Andy Gabrys did

I just wanted to echo what John Lewitt said and I can't help thinking there's potential for two songs there maybe. two very different but strong songs. There's the stripped back and perhaps shorter, acoustic and tender version, which keeps the vibe of the intro - and then of course the version with the rest of the production.

Just a personal thing, but I was loving it from the start, and then the production threw me a little.

Good luck with it lads
Gar

[johnlewitt]

I agree with Gar and almost wrote that myself. This could be mixed in a way that you have two completely different songs. The one I recommended as well as a full band production.