I need advice about co-write ownership dispute

atopel · Post by **atopel** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:37 am

Here is a real zinger - Long story short, at a song camp a group of 3 were assigned to create a song. I did the lions share of creation - it was just one of those time things where the other 2 in our group were newbies and came up blank, and I had a stream of muse moment. I asked for their input but got nothing. A few years later I changed the song even more and wanted to have it demoed. I asked the others if they would like to kick in and share cost. One replied thanks but declined, saying it was really my song as he felt neither he nor the other team mate contributed. The other, however, accused me of bullying her. She was miserable at the camp and had problems with others too, according to several other attendees. I still want to record it on my own. How would YOU deal with copyright/ ownership and PRO registration?

Len911 · Post by **Len911** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:47 am

Three co-writers.

It's irrelevant who slept through the session or had a bad hair day imo. The three of you were assigned to create a song.
The dispute isn't about who was there to create a song.

Otoh, you could take full credit, perhaps be sued and make an argument in court, or settle out of court, and fend off any challenges to your reputation. The most probable outcome is that nothing will happen.

I take it you are not much into collaborations. Which is fine, because I would guess most people probably aren't.

shorttonpro · Post by **shorttonpro** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:04 am

Yes, you three are technically equal co-writers no matter who contributed what. Were the circumstances different that day, who knows if your muse would have struck, if their small contribution makes the song etc...

Some possible solutions:
-If you end up paying for the demo yourself, you will own the master recording. Any possible licenses from this usually consist of 50% to the owner of the master recording and 50% to the songwriters/publishing. So in that case, keep the entire master fee and divide the song's portion among the three of you.

-You could buy them out and have them assign their interest in the copyright to you for a fee which you agree upon.

-If you think the song has potential, keep the splits even and push forward to try and make the best of the situation without burning any bridges and maybe something good will come out of it.

eeoo · Post by **eeoo** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:25 am

Yup, 3 co-writers, equal splits. You could get them to sign work for hire agreements and buy them out maybe?

DesireInspires · Post by **DesireInspires** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:11 am

Get it demoed.

The song may not even go anywhere. So why haggle over it? See what happens with the demo first.

Len911 · Post by **Len911** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:28 pm

If you are in the final chapter of your songwriting career, and this is your best song, by all means haggle. If you are in the infancy or adolescence of your songwriting career, more than likely you won't even remember this song.

Kolstad · Post by **Kolstad** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:47 am

Well, looks like you are in trouble. Basically you can't do anything with the song without your cowriters' accept.
So, if you can make them to sign the rights over to you for a fee, do it.

If you can't, and they don't want to contribute to demoing it, you can still demo it, of course. Then you alone will own the master (the (p)), and still share the copyright (the (c)) with the others. They can then buy shares in the master (the (p)) from you, if they like it, and you all want to move forward with pitching the song.

You may even still be able to pitch it, say if they don't want to shell out for a share in the master, and you get their accept that you can still pitch the song and exploit the master. But you will need to get that in writing, and it may not work at all without the involvement of a competent lawyer.

Problem with paperwork is that it's hard to get done after the fact, and a lot easier to get done upfront. Many of us have experiences with that. It's even worse if you believe you have a great song.

atopel · Post by **atopel** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:24 am

Thanks so much everyone. I have never doubted or disputed they are co-writers, as I offered them equal splits in producing a master recording. One graciously bowed out and wrote he didn't want any ownership and relinquished his share in writing. But the other was just bitter and suspicious.
Let me try this approach on you for feedback. I record it myself, and do not copyright with Library of Congress.
Here's a question - can I copyright a song with LoC claiming myself owning 2/3rd's and "Other" as 1/3rd ?

I know this approach flies with ASCAP, so I could then register the song with my PRO as owning 2/3rd's ownership and assign the remaining third ownership to "Other" which is a standard entry on ASCAP's registration. If indeed I hear from the other co-writer some day, I can tell her that her "share" has been listed as "Other" and awaits her registering her share to her own PRO. And as for the copyright, I am happy to complete the Library of Congress Copyright registration whenever she is ready.
It is indeed sad to have to proceed this way. And FYI, while I am not a seasoned pro yet, I have had several songs published and placed on TV, so I'm not exactly a newbie either. The truth is that I can't get the song out of my head, and I have a wonderful singer in mind who I believe can nail it. Thoughts? I really am trying to do the right thing here. Am I delusional?

eeoo · Post by **eeoo** » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:12 am

The publishers I work with want to know the writer splits and personal info (PRO, cae #, ss # etc) of all writers. In my experience if there is anything not clear about the song then they can't really claim that it is pre-cleared to their clients and they will take a pass on it.

eo

Kolstad · Post by **Kolstad** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:06 am

eeoo wrote:The publishers I work with want to know the writer splits and personal info (PRO, cae #, ss # etc) of all writers. In my experience if there is anything not clear about the song then they can't really claim that it is pre-cleared to their clients and they will take a pass on it.

eo

+1 to this. Contracts in music business are crazy in the first place. If they don't even live up to the "crazy" std, you have a total disaster on your hands. You will only transfer the problems to your publisher or artist, in stead of having them solved beforehand. That is a scenario everyone will run away screaming from. Some people today are desperate for opportunities to sue your ass off.

Get the paperwork crystal clear, or shelf the song and move on. No one song will make you a bundle anyway in todays mrkt.

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