Trailer or song structure?

[BenjaminDerclaye]

Hi,

I've had 4 pieces returned in the last couple of weeks. Most of them, apparently due to issues with the structure and length. Therefore, I'm seeking out advice from the more experienced on here to help me read the listing properly.


New Listing EMOTIONALLY UPLIFTING, ANTHEMIC POP/ROCK INSTRUMENTALS
They’re actively searching for well-crafted, Mid-Tempo Instrumentals in the general stylistic wheelhouse of music heard in Trailers like: “Forever” TV Show Trailer: (Starting at 2:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JmVnyJ16d4 The Fault in Our Stars” Trailer: (Starting at 1:40) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuVjGbncgQE “The Age of Adaline” Trailer: (Starting at :56) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clbSd2JzAqc Submit well-crafted Instrumentals that give the audience an uplifting feeling of hope, inspiration, or optimism. Your submissions should have typical Pop/Rock instrumentation, with the addition of swelling strings and big anthemic drums. Your piece should develop at it progresses, with dynamic changes, and a big climactic finish. Your submissions should be at least 2 minutes in length.

As I read it, they need a short (2min) song structure (intro-verse-(pre)chorus-etc) kind of piece. However, the three references are all film-trailers that have the usual 3 act structure.

Can anyone help me pout and letting me know if I should tackle this as a song or a trailer?

Thanks in advance for your help and expertise.
Cheers

Benjamin

[mladendomic]

Good question, Benjamin.
I don't know the answer, but I hope someone will solve the dilema.
One more thing: I think the starting points are mixed between "Forever" and "Fault..". Looking at the description for the listing and comparing it to what starts at stated times I see mismatch.

[hummingbird]

I'd take the listing to mean they want a 2min instrumental trailer, even if the samples provided are from songs.

Instrumentals for film/tv are almost never constructed like songs, as the chorus comes far too late. I compose an ABABA most of the time, "A" being the 'chorus', which is embellished each time with additional elements to add ear candy, or to grow to a climax which is what they want here. You want to hit them with a bit of meat & potatoes by about 15 seconds in.

I love the music in film trailers, it's usually so... dramatic and compelling hehe

[BenjaminDerclaye]

Thanks guys.

I followed my instinct and tried to come up with a trailer structure. There's changes throughout the song, although no big dramatic changes every four bars (more like eight), which I think sounds a bit silly at times.

I think I'm close to the feel they requested and referenced but I'm always happy to hear others opinions.
Feel free to comment.

https://soundcloud.com/derclaye/cold-plunge

[Gypsygal]

Hey Benjamin - I don't know if this listing is already passed but I liked your track - if I were to make a suggestion, it would be to just
cut the first minute altogether, what you'd probly be better off doing is to just
start the piece at the 1:02 mark, as it starts off a little laid back, with a great lush sound, but there's head room and then it builds to a great climactic finish. But you need it to be 2 min., So I would take
that first bit from 1:02 to a good edit point before the build, and expand that it out with laying in more and less of things, with some "graceful" edit points - that would lengthen the track, and then have the last build up section come in and culminate at the 2 min. mark (or so).

I think that would give you a track along the lines of what they were describing in the listing. From 1:02 on it's a great track, just needed lengthening out to 2min.

My 2 cents for what it's worth, good luck with your submission !
diane

www.taxi.com/dianeridaeus

[BenjaminDerclaye]

Hi Diane,

Thanks for your feedback and I understand what you mean. However if I do what you suggested, it's not originating as a pop/rock arrangement into more classical tones with big drums, as the brief requested. Then it would be mostly classical with big drums throughout.

It also would make a tad harder to make the common 3-act structure of movie trailers.

I do understand and agree that your suggestion would make it a better piece but I don't know how I could adapt it as such within the constrains of the listing.

Makes sense?

[BenjaminDerclaye]

Hi all,

Cue got returned. Here are the comments.

"Cool cue, Benjamin, but i feel your individual parts could tie together better. For instance, section 1 (:00-30) could have felt more cohesive with section 2. Also, a thought would be to keep building/developing as opposed to breaking down after 1:00. Solid work, though. I enjoyed checking it out."

Aren't the comments that he/she gave a little bit against the structure of a trailer/cue?
I thought the trailer had to be a 3 act piece that breaks down around a third of the piece to then build up to a big climax at the end>

Anyway I'm happy with the feedback anyway but any other opinions are just as valuable.
I'm here to learn after all.

Cheers
B

[Cruciform]

Hi Benjamin,

This might sting. Sorry, it's not personal but this is what I'd be thinking as an editor if the cue was sent to me for a trailer opp.

I think you're getting confused with the result that your cue doesn't work as a song base or a trailer cue.

You don't need a breakdown in a trailer cue, but if you do have one it needs to be logical and still contribute to the overall build.

Your cue:
A: 0-0:33
B: 0:33-0:53
C: 0:54-1:27
D: 1:27-End

B is totally different to A. B doesn't lead well into C though I can hear motif consistency between B and C. D follows on ok from C.

Scrap A, use it for a totally different cue. Move B to between C and D. So you'd have: C > B > D

Then:

Mix the guitars in C down a little and emphasise the keys. Sounds like there is some kind of strings patch in there. Replace it with a pad or collab with someone who really knows strings. Double the length of the B section but rather than having it instantly hit as it currently does, build it a little more slowly. Then follow with D.

I now see that Diane suggested something similar.

Forget the trailer 3-act formula unless you know what you're doing. It's highly unlikely that a single cue will get used for the full-length of a trailer. Typically the editor will cut multiple cues.

Concentrate on a steady build throughout and you will have a piece that is more useful to a trailer editor. Ensure there are clean edit points between sections. Even within sections, if you can musically create a hit point every 15s you'll serve the purpose well.

[BenjaminDerclaye]

Hi Rob,

Very valuable feedback and advice. I'll have a go at it and see how it comes out.

I only assumed one should follow the trailer 3-act structure because it was mentioned in other listings and TAXI shows.

Thanks again for your time and expertise.
Cheers

B

[Cruciform]

I only assumed one should follow the trailer 3-act structure because it was mentioned in other listings and TAXI shows.

Happy to help.

If you follow the suggestions Diane and I made, you'll have a 3-part trailer cue. Intro - middle - end. But don't overthink it. The whole 3-act thing is one of those pieces of advice that only makes sense if you understand trailers. Otherwise it gets confusing.

Trailers traditionally have 3 main sections. The introduction. The story-telling section. A montage. Years ago, a single composer or studio would score the whole thing. Nowadays that's very rare. 95% of the time editors will cut a bunch of cues and songs to fit the trailer. It's better to make your cue do one thing really well, then try and work it to fit all the parts of the trailer, because odds are it won't get used the whole way through.

But if you can do a 3 section piece really well, then you have a better chance of extended usage. That's all.