Programming midi drums help

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lesmac
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Programming midi drums help

Post by lesmac » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:48 pm

Hi folks.

I have had a hard time learning to program midi drums not helped by having no music theory and always playing guitar by feel. Now I am starting to focus on timing, counting ,tempo etc and just listening to drummers more intently.

Like most of this music creation stuff I am realising it is a matter of rolling up your sleeves and doing it, with time you will get better.

I am using a keyboard to play some parts in and then quantise and to also draw in notes with the pencil tool.

Does anyone have any tips on how they get their drum parts down, workflow etc.

Many thanks in advance for advice. :)

Edit; The genres I'm interested in are adult contemporary, country where a realistic/natural sound are required. Any tips from the EDM people are still welcome though. :)

Just realised I should have posted this in technology, recording etc. Anyone know if you can delete a thread from a forum?

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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by marcblack30 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:10 pm

Hi Lester,

I would highly recommend checking out EZDrummer at http://www.toontrack.com/

They have a song creator feature that you can drag any midi beat into the module and it will grab all related beats for intro/verse/chorus/fills/bridge/ending to create a song. The kits that come with are really great and would work well for the genres you mentioned. You can also tap a beat and it will find matching beats, it's pretty cool!

Drums On Demand also has some good loop packages to choose from and sound great as well.
-- Marc Blackwell

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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by lesmac » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:27 pm

Thanks Marc, will check them both out. I have BFD3 and have been using the midi editor in Pro tools as opposed to the BFD3 editor.

I have seen EZ Drummer recommended quite a bit, so yeah, will take into consideration.

Cheers thanks for that. :)

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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by Paulie » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:35 pm

What software or DAW are you using?

When I record drums I record separate tracks for the different kit parts. I have a Mac and use Logic, so it already comes with a ton of loops and a great feature called "Drummer." that can make tracks for you, very good stuff actually.

But in general, if you are recording drum parts you have to think like a drummer when you are playing. If its a basic rock song I lay down the bass drum and snare using the famous two finger technique. Launch the click track and start playing the groove. Keep it simple.... boom, chick, boom, chick, boom, chick-boom, chick. I usually try for 8 bar phrases at a time. Once I have the BD and SD (bass drum and snare drum) I split the track into two tracks (lots of ways to do that). Give the BD its own track, the SD its one.

Then I go back and play just the hi-hat part on a new track. Just straight 8th notes but I try to play with some feel, leaning into the down beats and playing a little lighter on the upbeats, just as if I was hitting a real hi-hat. (it helps that I play a little drums in real life).

So now, I've got the basics, BD, SD and HH. I usually quantize with strength around 75-80% to keep it sounding somewhat human. But I make sure my 2 and 4 are really solid.

Once this is done, you should have 8 bars of a simple beat. Edit the BD and HH as needed to get the feel you are looking for. Then copy/paste this phrase through the length of your song.

Now you've got a basic beat to compose to. Then go back as needed, create a 4th drum track for cymbals only. Put cymbal crashes where you want them, and don't hit to hard... nbot every crash has to be at velocity 127. :-) Add a 5th track for drum fills, the toms, extra snare and bass drum hits, etc. When you add fills be sure to erase notes that wouldn't happen in real life. (you can't hit a snare, hi-hat and cymbal at the same time, that requires three hands).

All the time you should be thinking like a drummer. With fills, less is more. A good way to practice this technique is to recreate drum tracks from songs in the style you are writing.

And remember, it's not only about the notes and timing. You also have to consider the sound of each drum so that it matches the genre. Recreating tracks of songs you like is a great way to learn. Listen to the attack of the snare drum, listen to how busy or sparse the bass drum is. Listen for volume differences between bass drum kicks or hi-hat grooves. The snare should be solid... goo drummers have spent countless hours refining their 2-4 backbeat.

One final thing... if you have any drummer friends, ask if you can sit at the throne and give it a try. You can learn quickly, for me visualizing the actual drum kit helps me create fairly realistic grooves.

So, this is all just my humble $0.02. Your mileage may vary, but it's a good start. Hope this is helpful!
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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by Len911 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:11 pm

Jamstix is a really neat little program.

The premise I guess you could say is programming like a real drummer would, it won't let you program as if you have 4 hands for example.
It comes with drum sounds or it has various midi maps, for example your BFD, and you can use and record your own drum sounds.
It has a song arranger, you just type in the section, how many bars, etc. etc.
It also has a number of virtual drummers in various styles and you also have numerous controls you can adjust to alter or affect their playing style.
You can also program your own.
You can import a groove as a starting point to build your own drum track.
These aren't pre programmed loops.

In a nutshell, it is a very flexible hybrid program, it starts at $99, you can expand styles, drummers and/or drum kit sounds by purchasing add ons.

the videos will give a better example of what it is

http://www.rayzoon.com/jamstix3_vid.html

This video gives a quick picture of most of the basic elements like song structure, drummer, style, the brain, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... rcn2d4PPe4
Last edited by Len911 on Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by lesmac » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:12 pm

Gee thanks so much Paulie for the detailed reply, I think you have given me the sort of info I am looking for.

I am using Pro tools 11 and I have BFD3. I use the midi editor in Pro tools rather than the BFD editor as I found I was loosing my way and weird stuff was happening for me in the BFD editor.

I can mult out the tracks separately.

I am building up songs that I have written on guitar and some of my trouble is identifying the groove and what should go where.

I could possibly get a track together quicker if I was just building a drum track first then creating a song/instrumental around it. I have watched videos on how to humanise midi drum tracks and appreciate your quantisation strength percentage recommendation.

Once again many thanks for your reply. :)

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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by lesmac » Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:44 pm

Thanks Len, I've got my eye on it and am watching some of the tutorials of which there are quite a few- always good.

I would use it to build the tracks and then bring the midi file into BFD. It looks like it does the work of humanising up front for you and I get the feeling it may be a time saver.

I thought I was over buying my way out of trouble but I might have to make an exception.

Many thanks. :)

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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by Len911 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:12 am

lesmac wrote:Thanks Len, I've got my eye on it and am watching some of the tutorials of which there are quite a few- always good.

I would use it to build the tracks and then bring the midi file into BFD. It looks like it does the work of humanising up front for you and I get the feeling it may be a time saver.

I thought I was over buying my way out of trouble but I might have to make an exception.

Many thanks. :)
You can use BFD to compose from Jamstix as well, you just route the midi out of jamstix to midi in BFD, and record the midi file there when you are ready. You don't even have to use the internal jamstix drum samples at all or make a midi track and then import to BFD. That way you can tweak your bfd sounds and adjust the mix inside bfd at the same time as you are composing in jamstix.
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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by Len911 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:20 am

always playing guitar by feel. Now I am starting to focus on timing, counting ,tempo etc and just listening to drummers more intently.
maybe this will be helpful, maybe not,lol,

(Pro tools has beat detective, I'm not familiar with)

Cubase has a beat counter. You must know or guess how many beats you have per measure, if always 4/4 time is easy, 4.
Let's say you play your guitar by feel without metronome or drum track, etc. You can select the area for your first measure, 4 beats, go to the beat counter and determine the tempo of your measure and insert a tempo for that measure on the tempo track. You will no doubt have a different tempo for every measure, but what it does is allow you to insert your drum tracks and other instruments in time with your "free felt" composed guitar track. A rubato tempo and not a fixed mechanical robot tempo that needs quantized or adjusted later. Jamstix follows the host tempo as well.

If you recorded a "real" drummer that didn't play to a metronome, you could do the same thing, and they would be establishing the "rubato". Conductors are generally who determine the "rubato" for a score in a symphony, however I have read that back when bel canto
opera singers were popular, they would determine the rubato with their singing, forcing the conductor to follow the singer and creating friction between them,lol!

So before you focus too much on metronomic timing, counting, tempo, and listening to a drummer, I just wanted to throw in a little anarchy, or something else to consider,lol! ;)
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Re: Programming midi drums help

Post by lesmac » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:43 am

So before you focus too much on metronomic timing, counting, tempo, and listening to a drummer, I just wanted to throw in a little anarchy, or something else to consider,lol! ;)
No worries Len, all anarchy gratefully accepted. :D

Edit; I am familiar with beat detective. What I meant when I said I play guitar by feel is that I just didn't think in terms of bars and beats- strange I know.
I am playing my guide tracks to a click at the moment but in the future may delve into using beat detective and creating tempo maps etc.
Cheers Les

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