Technical question about bouncing

[mojobone]

The above is a study by Stanford University on the effects of latency within a band. So if the sweet spot in a band is 11.5 ms latency, what latency are you experiencing in your daw? Probably much less than 11.5 ms, maybe more like 5 ms? Are you using ASIO drivers? Probably so and that helps decrease latency by bypassing the extra processing incurred by going through the computer audio.

yeah. make you think. apparently its a ms trip from typical monitor speakers to your ears. Some people prefer headphones for that reason.

Foldback monitors weren't invented until rock'n'roll graduated from clubs and theaters to arenas and stadiums. Ostensibly, it was because of volume, but really, I think it was about latency and distance. You only have to be about fifty feet from your drummer to start having sync troubles. This is why marching bands have drum majors. The baton is a visual timing reference.

[jonnybutter]

MIDI latency, while variable to a degree, is generally a good deal lower than human latency, so 'slop' is hardly worth worrying about, unless you're running hundreds of MIDI tracks.

(What's ''human latency'?! Neural latency?). Is this true even with tons of cc's going (on less than hundreds of tracks)? I assume the answer is 'yes'.

I was going to say - maybe my problems are due to the deterioration of my playing skill and I'm blaming it on latency!

EDIT: One of these days when I find a Clear Spot http://www.beefheart.com/tag/clear-spot I'll do some tests and see if it's just me or not.

[mojobone]

MIDI latency, while variable to a degree, is generally a good deal lower than human latency, so 'slop' is hardly worth worrying about, unless you're running hundreds of MIDI tracks.

(What's ''human latency'?! Neural latency?). Is this true even with tons of cc's going (on less than hundreds of tracks)? I assume the answer is 'yes'.

I was going to say - maybe my problems are due to the deterioration of my playing skill and I'm blaming it on latency!

EDIT: One of these days when I find a Clear Spot http://www.beefheart.com/tag/clear-spot I'll do some tests and see if it's just me or not.

Yes, I was referring to reaction time; good musicians play well together because they learn to predict when the beat will arrive and quickly adjust to minute tempo variations. The better the drummer or tempo reference, the less predicting they need to do. And yes, it's very possible to choke a MIDI device, if there are tons of continuous controllers active. This is why back in the day, you used to see interfaces with eight or more MIDI ports to address multiple multitimbral samplers. You want to be a little judicious about using lots of controllers on a given channel.

[jonnybutter]

good musicians play well together because they learn to predict when the beat will arrive and quickly adjust to minute tempo variations.

AFAIC, good musicians don't 'keep' time - they play in a tempo which already exists - they just recognize it and play within it. That doesn't mean that the tempo never varies - of course it can a bit, depending on who the musicians are and what the material is. But the minute temporal variations which are most interesting (to me) are not tempo variations; they're the ones within a more or less fixed termporal context. What do polyrhythms mean if they aren't in reference to a fixed tempo? How do you play in front of or behind the beat if the beat is not more or less constant? Flexible time is why I had to give up certain kinds of jazz - the drummers were often all over the place.

I don't want to be judicious about cc's. I use the hell out of them, esp stuff like breath control. The more realtime control the better. Until I really analyze my system I will kind of keep an eye on MIDI data overload, but I hope I can find an MO in which there's not too much to worry about.

btw, I had one of those huge MIDI interfaces in the early 90s - I think it was 16x16!

[mojobone]

AFAIC, good musicians don't 'keep' time

Excellent point, JonnyB; drummers keep time, that's why they make jokes like, "Would the musicians and the drummer care to accompany me to the rehearsal space?"

I'm keeding, little bit, but there are tempos that are kinda built into the human condition, and speaking as a drummer, it seldom pays to mess with what works. There's the train beat, the walkin' beat, the ubiquitous-in-EDM-production (not to mention Polka) marching beat, a dozen or more beats based on work songs or vice versa, depending on how you look at it, all four gaits of the horse, (the Lone Ranger theme AKA the William Tell Overture is a resounding gallop) and of course the sex beats: slow jam, and what I like to call 'smacking the bishop'-though some folks call it the vinegar strokes.

Man, your post has really left me curious about which kinds of jazz you had to give up, because I suspect they might be my favorite kinds. (if you're on Spotify, you could check out my Whole Mess Of Fess playlist, for clues) It also so happens that later this morning, I'm gonna be required to sing a negro spiritual at a tempo that's way too fast, even for MY ostensibly white backside. "C'est la vie", said the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell.

[mojobone]

btw, I had one of those huge MIDI interfaces in the early 90s - I think it was 16x16!

I'm hoping Mazz, or some other forum members who run massive numbers of MIDI tracks will chime in; you might be in need of Vienna's Ensemble software, which can not only transfer MIDI over Ethernet, but also distribute processing over multiple networked computers. (I think maybe it's still Mac-only, but I haven't checked, in a while) Properly employed, it might solve your bottleneck issues, if that's what's going on.

[jonnybutter]

Entertaining post!

Man, your post has really left me curious about which kinds of jazz you had to give up,

Pedestrian bebop mainly, as opposed to your more obviously blues based jazz, which I like more anyway, and which tends to have more fidelity to the pulse.

you might be in need of Vienna's Ensemble software

Yes, I'm gonna look into that. Thanks for reminding me.

[jonnybutter]

I can't find a "Whole Mess Of Fess" playlist on Spotify. Now I wanna know what's on it! PM if you prefer

[andygabrys]

I have VE Pro and use it in every session, as well as directly hosted Kontakt, Play and Vienna plugins.

it works. I don't think it will solve your MIDI bottleneck. Likely other things afoot if you are having issues.

[jonnybutter]

Thanks Andy. I'll test my system as it is as rigorously as I can and will report back.