Return Synth pop .. but talk me off the ledge...

[Sunset]

Hi all,

Ok this track https://soundcloud.com/johnnyguitar/lady-of-the-80s that was submitted for U160302SP

SYNTH POP INSTRUMENTAL CUES with are needed by a very successful Music Library with a really long track record of placements in TV, Films, and Commercials. They’re looking for contemporary, Mid-to-Up-Tempo Synth Pop Instrumental Cues that generally reflect the vibe and style of a range of acts like St. Lucia, Strange Talk, CHVRCHES, etc., etc., etc. Take a careful listen to the references below to get in the general stylistic wheelhouse of what this very successful company needs: “Dancing On Glass” by St. Lucia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDKJ29357FU “Climbing Walls” by Strange Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMLxxXCYR1k “Never Ending Circles” by CHVRCHES: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU9_0pxiDjY NOTE: Although the references have vocals, please submit Instrumental Cues only for this pitch. Please submit current, well-crafted Synth Pop Instrumental Cues that are rhythmically and melodically solid, with a slick overall approach that sounds like it could fit on a playlist with the references above and other acts in that ballpark. Build your Cue around a focused, central melodic theme, while layering your instruments in and out as your Cue progresses to keep it dynamically interesting, forward moving, and not sounding too repetitive, linear, or one-dimensional. All submissions should be at least 2 minutes in length, with easy edit points and buttoned/stinger endings. Do NOT copy or rip off the referenced music in any way, shape, or form. Use it only as a general guide for feel, texture, tone, and vibe.

had th following commentary.. Style is definitely right but some of the tone choices could be more current I feel. Check out the sounds used by the examples. The drum programming slips up in some spots.

Ok ,I can handle this but 1. what "Current" tone choices are we talking about? Drums were "retro "linn drum samples( thought that was the 80's) and synth choices were from Omnisphere and Zebra and retro style.. so what did I miss? and 2.

"Drum programming slips up".. yeah maybe but where? I purposely DIDN't try to have too many variations in this tune, gated the reverb like the 80's pop drums ...

So especially of those that got forwards, what do you hear that could be improved?

Many Thanks,

John

[cassmcentee]

Hey John!
Just listened to some of your track...
Then I played the first reference track: St. Lucia "Dancing On Glass
What jumped out immediately to my ears:
The reference tune has great/deep drums (modern sound)
It uses modern production techniques like the intro build that sweeps from low to high
So it feels Contemporary, one of the Key Words in the Listing.
You have the late 70's early 80's sound both in your instrumentation and your mix which I'm pretty sure is what they weren't looking for.
Hang on to it and work on the areas that the screener pointed out.
You never know when a listing could pop up that needs Retro tunes!
Sincerely,
Cass

[Paulie]

Hi John,

Very 80s! I also received a return for this listing... I have had some success in the past with Chvrches listings, but mtg return was for a different reason (lacking more of a top line melody, needs to be more compelling). I'm still struggling to figure out how much melody is enough, versus too much. I think your track has plenty of melody.

As far as feedback goes, I hear a few things that I think could use some work:

• The drum beat and repeated bass note is right on for the genre. To me your track sounds the closest to the third a la provided (Chvrches). Have you listened to your song/mix and compared it to this track? The Linn Drums are very far back in your mix, versus right up front in the a la.
• As a teen of the 80s I remember quite well the takeover of the synths and sequencers, with a big emphasis on "sequencer." Your tracks do not sound quantized, which was a big thing during this time period.
• The bell lead that comes in around 0:25 is a little bit too far forward in the mix for me. Something I've read more than once in different mixing books from world class engineers is the concept that in each phrase there should only be one musical element that is the focus or star of that section. So, when you add a melody line, drop the pad or other voices lower in the mix to get them out of the way.
• The edit points are quite abrupt, it sounds forced instead of musical. Don't lose the tempo, don't force them into place. I did the EXACT same thing when I first started... I've learned to let the phrases flow naturally and let the edit points appear where they need to, without startling the listener. After all, most of what we are trying to get forwards for are television cues, and music supervisors don't want the music to distract from the dialogue.
• The drums and synth in the last phrase are not together, it's a little loose time wise.

Hope this helps. Keep at it!

PC

[Sunset]

Thanks Paulie and Cass.. good comments all and helpful! Now back to work for me...


JD

[cosmicdolphin]

I had a return for this listing also.. So take this with a grain of salt but I thought your track seemed very rooted in the early 80s in terms of sounds used and production techniques. The references have a retro vibe but they don't sound like they were made 30yrs ago, I have the St Lucia and Chvrches albums in the car and listened to them both a fair bit before writing and it still didn't help.

My feedback said

"Liked this but the fast modulation is a bit overdone and is a little too upfront in the mix for my ears. Lots of other cool tones but the top line dominates too much."

I've since had another return for a different piece on similar listing U160223EP which mentioned Chvrches and Strange Talk before finally having a 3rd track forwarded on a contemporary pop listing that mentioned Katy Perry and Demi Lovato. I thought all three tracks were quite similar in standard so the forward was as surprising as the return.

You can hear them from our Taxi page at http://www.taxi.com/phonicworks

The return on the same listing is "Chorus of Hopez" and the other return is called "Little Bombs"... The forward is called " Don't be That Guy"

Cheers

Mark

[andygabrys]

I didn't submit any tracks for this listing, but unless you omitted posting part of the text in, I see no references to 80's.

First off and most importantly:

It was mentioned above - mix balance.

this sounds like you started with the drums, and as you added elements, you didn't go back and make a flat balance. If you were monitoring loud, that's pretty understandable.

1) Monitor loud to get sounds together
2) turn down your monitors to the point where the music is totally inaudible. Now turn them up one notch so you can easily hear yourself breath over the music. Can you still hear everything? This is one way to get really flat balances. Listen to the ref tracks using the same technique. What do you hear?

1. what "Current" tone choices are we talking about? Drums were "retro "linn drum samples( thought that was the 80's) and synth choices were from Omnisphere and Zebra and retro style.. so what did I miss?

Ok - if you are thinking 80's, then you are missing part of the text behind the text that was pointed out / alluded to in the comments above.

Yes a lot of these tracks have some sounds like the 80's (like Chvrches drums) - but they are treated in a contemporary manner.

Drums are bright. Often drums are sent to a parallel distortion chain.
Synths are often filtered - they aren't full range - especially really bright pads - that's more 80's
Almost every synth has some amount of distortion on it as well. Things like SoundToys Decapitator or Radiator or the generic distortion effects in your DAW are your friends. They introduce grit and brightness, making those patches sound alive, without making them out of control. Then filter them so they don't sound like DX7 patches straight from the keyboard.

2. "Drum programming slips up".. yeah maybe but where? I purposely DIDN't try to have too many variations in this tune, gated the reverb like the 80's pop drums ...

Again - its programming, not approximating a live drummer, so its gotta be really close to the grid. Quantizing isn't evil for this.
Listen to the overall ambience of these tunes vs. something like Blue Monday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftJZomwDhxQ - back to back they sound pretty dramatically different.

It was also mentioned above - the edit points:

Don't fade anything in the edits. If there is a keyboard patch playing - just take off whatever modulation or arpeggiation is happening. If an editor wants to fade it out there, they will add their own fade. Just stop the rhythmic elements (again, gated modulation, drums etc).

Length of edit points - you might find them more musical if they are multiples of bars in length - 1 bar, 2 bars etc.

Opinions - hope they help.

[Sunset]

Thx Mark and Andy for your comments they definitely do help.. Sorry it took so long to get back

John