Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

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phustedt1
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Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

Post by phustedt1 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:25 am

I've heard warning of not being too "stiff" or "MIDI driven" on many of the listings.

In the realm of the tension/trailer/underscore listing, where most sounds are MIDI samples and arpeggios can add to the vibe, any advice on not sounding too MIDI driven?

Before I went to the forums and saw what was getting forwarded on these listings I thought that description was more or less referring to sample quality, but now that I hear what is being forwarded compared with some of my efforts, I'm saying "Shoot, my stuff sounds kind of 'MIDI-driven doesn't it?"

Any advice? Has anyone else had this dilemma and grown through it and developed these tension/underscore cues in a less-stiff. less MIDI-driven way over time?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to the advice

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Re: Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

Post by Cruciform » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:25 pm

I haven't listened to any of your music so this is general advice.

Know your instruments and how to get the best sound out of each.

For orchestral samples that means knowing how to cross-fade between the dynamic layers smoothly to give the impression of changing bow pressure or blowing strength. On legato articulations expression/dynamic layers are usually accessed via CC1 or CC11. Check the manual for your samples. Dynamic layers are where each sample has been recorded at different intensities to capture softer or harder performances. On short articulations such as spiccato, sforzando, staccato, etc., dynamic layers are usually accessed by velocity.

Listen to the instruments in real recordings so you develop an ear for how they should sound. How long is a bow stroke (usually not an issue for large ensemble mock-ups)? How long can a brass player hold a big note? etc. How does it sound when the violins are bowing very softly as opposed to digging in hard for soaring passages? Then use dynamic layers to try and capture some of the fluidity and emotion that real players provide.

Don't quantize mock-ups. If you need to, change start/end times on the notes across sections so they are a bit random, mimicking how a real orchestra or ensemble will not have every player start and finish each note at exactly the same time.

Use the headroom you have in the 24 bit digital environment. Not everything has to be loud. Use softness and sparseness along with loudness and density. It's bemusing to hear a cue where the spiccato strings or brass or whatever are at full intensity the entire duration. That doesn't happen in real life and it also makes for a boring cue that loses attention quickly.

Add in real instruments when you can. It might be guitar, a violin, a drum sound, harp, whatever. But a well played and recorded human performance can add a great deal of life to a mock-up. I know this isn't always possible or appropriate but just keep it in mind.

And sometimes, the samples themselves aren't up to scratch. Every year new libraries are released and the bar keeps rising. It doesn't mean you need to upgrade every year but for example, you're unlikely to get the same result from say Garritan Personal Orchestra as you would with a template loaded with 8Dio, Audiobro, Cinesamples, Project Sam, etc. And that also doesn't mean rush out and buy new samples. If you can't use your existing libraries effectively you will probably initially sound worse with a newer more indepth sample set because they have more factors that need to be tweaked. OTOH, put in the work and they will sound far more organic and expressive than an older, more simply recorded library.

Everyone has been through this. It's part of coming to grips with learning how to use samples.

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Re: Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

Post by CraigR » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:00 am

Wow!!! Dude!!! Real cool advice, and in a good technical vein as well

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Re: Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

Post by MattCurious » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:43 am

Yep - Rob is really good at this and has helped me no-end; that's good advice.

One thing I would add is that, where possible, I play my samples through a keyboard using the mod wheel and pedal to change dynamics and articulations. I'm not a particularly good keyboard player, so I sometimes lay down the notes, then go back and then record the dynamics over them.

What I've found is that my variances in timing and velocity add a human level to the playing (although obviously do go back and clean anything up that sounds less than professional) compared to programming directly into the piano roll; I also find it a time saver.
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Re: Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

Post by phustedt1 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:53 am

AMAZING and very helpful advice and much appreciated!! It has already helped!

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Re: Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

Post by Cruciform » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:59 pm

MattCurious wrote:One thing I would add is that, where possible, I play my samples through a keyboard using the mod wheel and pedal to change dynamics and articulations. I'm not a particularly good keyboard player, so I sometimes lay down the notes, then go back and then record the dynamics over them.
Yes, this ^

If one can record the notes and expression at the same time, great. But I do it like this as well. One instrument at a time. And I usually also manually tweak beyond that because of the inherent shortcomings in samples (eg. sometimes a legato transition is too loud or too soft, sometimes rolling from one dynamic layer to the next causes a jump/fall in volume that needs to be addressed, etc). And there are no shortcuts, I can easily spend a week or two on one cue. I would rather have one cue that I'm really happy with then 5 cues that I know could be better.

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Re: Advice for not being too "MIDI-driven"

Post by HenriettaAtkin » Tue May 03, 2016 10:50 pm

I've found that playing in the music as opposed to using the piano roll does help capture the "spirit" of the song.

I like to play stuff in real emotionally, as if I am playing a real violin, cello, synth etc., and I believe I can hear the difference!

Having said that, I do quantize a lot of the time get everything professional-sounding.

I then use the humanize feature in Logic X, but I don't use the suggested +/- 10 for position, velocity and length. That often makes things sound off and sloppy rhythmically. Usually I do +/- 4 or 5.

Some instruments have a velocity threshold at which they start sounding odd. For example, my cello sounds like a gruff barking dog at velocities above 83 (I know...right?), so I sometimes go through the piano roll "by hand" and fix rogue velocities.

Another feature that can nuance your MIDI is changing up the tempo every measure or so. I will vary the tempo from 81 BPM through 85 BPM depending on how the music feels.

You can also automate your reverb using the latch feature.

Hope this helps.

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