Why there SHOULD be a class at TRR on Music Theory

[RebekahAnnCurtis]

I've been a member on and off for about 7 years. My first year, I submitted like crazy from the album that was extremely costly to produce, which I had crowdfunded and then promoted.
I had opted to have a set of songs produced into an album because I didn't have a sound engineer background, nor could I play all of the instruments required for live instruments on the album.
I submitted the crap out of that album and was rejected over and over again. I did get a few forwards for some instrumentals, which I was contacted and then had to forgo because I didn't have releases from everyone who played on my album. That took over two years to collect after the fact. Get your paperwork squared away up front kids.
I went to the Rally my first year, and it was a completely eye opening experience.
1. I took 100 cds with the intent of giving away every single one. I did. I passed them out like candy.
2. Some of my music was listened to by some very hung over panelists... they felt it wasn't emotive enough for the sentiment of the song, right afterwards my deflated ego was perked up a bit by two ladies who rushed up to me and told me how awesome my cd was. I let them know that the panelists thought it was crap. I have no idea who they were, they were nice.
3. I sat in a mentor lunch next to a mentor. It was ok. Loud and difficult to hear.
4. I missed the one on one mentor because I was in the lobby listening to a country writer talk about international harvesters.
5. I hung out in the lobby a lot because I am super cheap and was at the hotel down the street. I will not do that ever again.
6. I stalked Jason Blume in an elevator. Not really, but I did follow him to tell him after sitting in his class that his book inspired me to work on the craft of songwriting.
7. I met people. I am not a social person. I'm shy, I don't share a lot of personal stuff about myself, I just dont. I don't like crowds, I don't like small talk, but at the rally, there's a sea of people who all they want to talk about is music. I love music and music related things and the questions I want to ask I feel like I can ask and get a real answer and not totally feel like an obnoxious gnat.
8. I learned that I needed to be able to do a lot of stuff myself if I wanted it to turn out right, and I learned that I can.
9. I went home.

After that first road rally, life changing btw, there were a ton of road bumps, life and choices that prevented me from getting to the rally again a second time. One year, I opted for a PA instead of going. Software instead of going. And then other life stuff, and then my antisocialness crept in and I began to think, well, I'm really a failure at this music thing, I'm not where I want to be, and I want to go, but will it really be as awesome as last time? So I started submitting again and getting returns and watching taxi tv.

Apart from Taxi, I submitted and had music picked up by some libraries and placed. Yay! Placements! Whee! But I still feel like such a failure because I haven't secured one through Taxi specifically, yet.

I got a lot of crap from fellow songwriters who poo pooed taxi, claiming it's a scam, that they just want your money and they suck. I told them, I've been to the road rally, I met mr Laskow, these people are not shady or terrible people or preying upon people who want to be famous. These are good people. I asked my fellow songwriters if they'd been to the rally, and they said, no. But a few had and I asked them how they submitted and they said with not so good results.

I became a 'gate keeper'. Ok, so I'm a lowly gatekeeper at an internet radio station for a few shows, but I learned a lot. One, I learned how to put together a podcast and engineer speaking, and record 'live on the spot' performances with crappy equipment. Signal chain and if the sound going in is good, that's all you need for a good recording. Two, I started listening to all kinds of music. I listened to a lot before, but I listen to way more than I thought I would ever listen to, and in all kinds of genres. I also learned that there are things you shouldn't do when submitting and being obnoxious. There's a lot. I don't like to get bothered with a thousand questions about one song and if I like it or not, because if I like it then I will play it on my show or forward it to someone else's show on the station that it's a fit for, but to ask me if I like it, I'm confounded, because are you asking for my opinion or are you hinting that you want me to play it? If you want me to play it, attach meta data and send to the email for the submissions on the station. Simple. If you want me to critique it... you really don't, because I will tear it apart. I'm excellent at tearing apart a song, it's easy to do, and it leaves the songwriter weeping in despair. I'd rather point out good things about songs. But four years later, around 1000 shows recorded/hosted/engineered/choosing music for... I have a good idea how to submit. I'm smarter about submitting and if I do a track for a listing, many times I don't submit, because I'm not 100% on it. But I also did something else.

I started to examine the people who were successful and doing it full time and what was the major ingredient between me and my returns, my fellow songwriters, and them. I cyber stalked a lot of people. I researched them and their backgrounds. Not like PI stuff, like found out where they went to school and what they majored in. The underlying factor for most successful music people: They held a major or a minor in music theory or performance or composition. It made me feel a bit diminished with my paltry learning. (yes, that was intentional)

Therein is the key ingredient. A music theory background of some kind.

While most people think music theory is a staff, notes on paper, and CDEFGAB, a bunch of sharp people who get flat tires, (see what I did there?), music theory is what makes a genre a genre. What makes 'jazz', 'jazz'? What makes 'americana', 'americana'? What makes blues, blues.. so on and so forth. It's the rhythms as a basis and the harmonic structures. These are incredibly important. It's not just the 'tones' used, it's the melodic structure, the pattern of the song.

We're getting past the days where you could hide your musical family leanings and claim that you have no musical training whatsoever (which if you grew up in a house where music was played regularly, you did get a music performance education if only by listening - there's a sir Paul McCartney out there that feels he has no training, but fits this description). Education is sexy. Learning stuff is important.

Music theory in regards to the staff and 12 notes on paper is excellent for advanced composition of orchestral scores, but when discussing popular music, it's not necessarily as important. BUT the concept of music theory of rhythm and harmonics is essential for nailing a listing that calls for a contemporary country song.

This is not a "either you get it or you don't" problem, but rather a "do you have the information and knowledge how to create a contemporary country song" problem.

I understand that there are beginners who will poo poo the idea of a "Nailing the Genre" class if it's presented as "Music Theory 101" or "Music Theory for the Noob"
but "Nailing the Genre" IS a music theory problem at it's core.

I would attend a class about genre if they talked about song structure, chord progression structure, instruments, rhythms, within that particular genre and what makes that genre that genre instead of one that says... "use your ears."

If I use my ears but cannot identify what I am listening to or for (because I have no formal musical theory training), then I will leave frustrated and upset because Taxi is a complete scam and wants my money and doesn't care because I am not formally trained.

I personally have not felt that way, I've been super frustrated when a track is close and excellent but not forwarded because of one seemingly small reason, but that happens with everyone, but I have met people who do feel that Taxi is a scam because Taxi didn't forward their music, and it's because the people do not have formal education in regards to musical theory, and do not understand why their track is not forwarded. And we're talking about people who submitted a track that is really not even close to what the listing asked for, because once again they don't understand because they lack knowledge. Most of these people were at one time members, but not longer.

It would be like telling someone who had never made potato salad to bring one to a party.

You: "Taste this delicious potato salad I made!"

Person: "That's soooo good!"

You: "Now go home and make it yourself."

Person: "What's in it?"

You: "Oh potatoes, celery, whatever, Just taste it, you'll figure it out."

Person: "Do you have a recipe for this salad?"

You: "There's tons of them on the internet!"

Person: "Oh, Ok."


That person then goes home finds thousands of recipes that call for all kinds of ingredients. This person has never cooked in their entire life. They think they are a good cook because they own and oven and turn it on to heat up some stuff that comes in a box. They buy frozen rolls at the store, thaw them out and 'cook' them in the oven and call that homemade. They may even have made tacos once. If you ask them if they are a cook, they'll say, "yeah! I cook at home!" But they don't own a recipe book beyond the 1960's Jello recipe book. And they don't know potato salad. They don't know that you should probably cut up the potatoes into small bite sized pieces and boil them briefly instead of boiling the entire potato until they're done in the middle unless you want potato salad glop instead of potato salad, maybe they'll find a recipe that says that somewhere in the sea of information on the internet, but most don't. Not all recipes tell you to use cooked potatoes, it's implied. Not all use mustard. Some do not use mayonnaise, some have spices like garlic and pepper and cumin or turmeric in them, some have paprika, some toss in olives, some people throw in ham. The person will become frustrated if you ask them to bring a potato salad to your party, just like you make, but you haven't given them the recipe and then you get disappointed because it wasn't what you asked them to bring, probably because you assumed that they were a seasoned chef and could taste and identify all of the ingredients.

This is why there should be a few lower level entry classes. They are important so that we noobs, people who may have an education but didn't really get the music education they desired for whatever reason, can adequately learn some basics so we don't get frustrated. Perhaps it's belittling to the people who received and payed/paying for their music education for classes to exist at the rally, but it would help those who have talent to be a bit more secure in their talent and to hone it.

I do not understand why so many people in the TAXI TV were adamantly against a music theory related class, but then followed that up with a demand for a genres class. They are one and the same. That's the problem.

There.

Epilogue:

My second year attending (last year)

1. Attended mostly classes, ignored the ballroom for the most part.
2. Stalked Pat Pattison
3. Stalked Ralph Murphy
4. Fett's class
5. Ronan's online modules
6. Memel's classes
7. The guy with the brass VIs.
8. One on one with Jason Blume
9. Helped out
10. I felt lost when trying to connect with people, except for a few people, but I was focused on learning so I could connect in the future with people of caliber and communicate with them on their professional/educated level.

Got some good feedback from Mr. Blume, made me feel like my writing is on the right track!

Because of Pat's classes, I found some online classes that were reasonable and could take, also, I ordered all the books of his that I didn't already have. I ordered Fett's book, things as an engineer make it so much nicer to teach other engineers to be organzied.

Still amazing. Still life changing. I still recommend to each person if they want to join Taxi, that if they do nothing else, go to the Road Rally.

I also recommend being a 'gatekeeper' of sorts. Make a playlist of songs that you would want the world to hear if they had never heard a certain genre, even if the songs are famous, make a playlist. Listen to the playlist. Throw your song in that playlist. Be honest. Does your song fit that playlist? Rinse, repeat.

Learn music theory.

HEY BABY BOOMERS! LEARN MUSIC THEORY! THE BEATLES LIED!!! THEY KNEW MUSIC THEORY BACK IN THE 60s!!

Share your knowledge with others, even if it is paltry knowledge. You learn what you know better when you take care to teach correct information to people who don't know anything about what you know.

What I should have done...
a.Joined taxi.
b.Rally
c.Met people.
d.Shared songs.
e.Wrote more songs.
f.Collaborated with people from taxi.
g.Wrote more songs.
h.Write a lot.
i.Produce an EP.
j.Submit EP for taxi listings.
k.Submit EP to libraries.
l.Rinse repeat (a-k)

"For all the Bacon in the world, I would not be a fanatical cult like follower of jimmy Carvahlo"

[Sunset]

Rebekah,

I agree with you , being a somewhat of a schooled music theory person -but actually a cue writer and not(yet) singer/songwriter..
One book I can HIGHLY recommend (if you cont have it/know of it) is Tunesmith from Jimmy Webb.. yeah the Wichita lineman guy.. but he has written classics...

https://www.amazon.com/Tunesmith-Inside ... =tunesmith

it has his version of theory,songwriting ,lyrics,etc.and is worth every penny to buy.....

John

[hummingbird]

"Nailing the Genre" sounds like an excellent class, or classes.

Maybe: "Nailing the Genre: Tension & Suspense"

Or "Nailing the Genre: Country Rock"

or whatever

What about 2 45-min "Nailing the Genre's" Instead of one 90min class, ask senior & successful TAXI members to present a short class on the fundementals of the genre they are most expert in? Over the course of a Rally day, that could be like, 6 diff genres?

I took a workshop in Jazz Improvision here, two nights a week for 8 weeks. Many dropped out when they realized it was about theory as a basis for understanding what to play (sing). It was all over my head too but I stuck it out and took it again cause I wanted to figure it out.

[andygabrys]

Wow!

that is a long post.

I guess being "one of those who has a music degree from a big music college" (and the debt to prove it) I can say this much:

I learned what was basically the Schillinger system (of which a derivative is taught at Berklee and in many ways is the basis for "non-traditional" music theory and ear training) on my own, before I ever set foot in any music college. Am I so great. Nope. But the various Chat responses last night on TAXI Tv who were saying "that stuff is allover the internet" etc. were actually not that far off.

By the way - at Berklee I graduated with a Jazz Composition degree - but I have learned every single thing I know about mixing and production, recording, ear training applied to mixing ON MY OWN. By reading books and websites, falling down a lot, and writing hundreds of tunes (literally) that will never get finished, or see the light of day.

Turns out that if I had studied Film Scoring or Contemporary Writing or Music Production and Engineering it would have been more applicable to exactly what I do now on a daily basis.

There are a serious of excellent books out there - one called "The Jazz Theory Book" by Mark Levine who is a top level pianist who played with the late Vibraphonist Cal Tjader for many years lays it all out, and has tons of footnotes of audio examples you can find on a bazillion jazz records so you can actually hear what he is talking about.

Your point about music theory / genres / what goes into the right recipe is totally relevant though - because even when one learns some music theory it needs to be applied, and it needs to be tied into EAR TRAINING which is actually what you are talking about: How to listen to something and hear what the makeup of the recipe is.

Good news - there are tons of books and websites that deal with traditional ear training (solfeggi, how to sing scales and intervals, how to recognize chords etc) and there are also quite a number of books out there that deal with "producer's ear training" - how to hear different frequencies in a mix., etc. etc. etc.

The issue with all of these things is likely two-fold:

1. sometimes you feel like its too complex to start. You need a ground floor class to get on the "ground floor".
2. its hard to ask somebody basic enough questions without feeling dumb.

So what I would recommend, is doing a literature search for those books and websites that have applied theory, ear training, and their applications to songwriting, and production.

And then look in your basic location for people who you can hire to help you learn this stuff and keep hitting at the important aspects of this without getting too much into the theoretical aspects and sticking with the applied useful aspects.

Just a perspective - but I did it, and so can you. The fact that I got a music degree in addition is icing on the cake. Its not the meat of the cake.

[RebekahAnnCurtis]

I too am a constant student of music theory. The rabbit trail never ends. LOL.

The last few years I've submitted, I have received a "on target for listing" for almost all the ones I've submitted on my own. However, I'm neither suggesting that I am qualified to teach such a class, only that I've got a ballpark for submitting, which I believe is most of the battle.

Luckily, I had a grade school education in the basics and foundation of music theory, which included learning to read a staff, flats, sharps, etc, lot's of listening, etc. I plunked around on a keyboard that my grandfather bought us, learned to play recorder, sang a lot, I mean a lot, played a toy xylophone pounding out tunes from my favorite movies, including themes, I own schoenberg, frederick, blume, manoff, a few of berklee's publications, fux, several textbooks about the theory of melody, harmony for computer musicians, my library is growing yearly, and I read them. I study these books.

I'm not necessarily asking for myself, because one thing I have learned how to, is study.

What I've noticed is that there seems to be people who miss it. Why are they missing it?

Wouldn't it be nice to fix that problem?

I bet Mr. Laskow would be ecstatic to have so many great tracks coming in that can be forwarded, libraries would be knocking down his door and asking him constantly for great music to be used in every single movie and tv show out there. If Mr. Laskow is addressing forwardability during Taxi TV, there's an issue...yes?

There are beginning classes that Casey Hurowitz teaches on song structure, this information is easily found on the internet.

Ralph Murphy teaches a class on the business side of how to 'cook' a good song, and rewriting, you don't have to attend his class, you can just purchase his book.

I had read a lot of the information in D. Krippahanes book on the internet before I purchased and read his book, why would someone attend his class when the information is readily available.

---

Why are there classes for noobs that skirt around the basis of music theory but never directly address it in a practical way?

I understand that perhaps for a musician who's been through all of those basic courses, it's a course that would detract from other courses and classes an advanced musician would take? But I don't see a lot of advanced musicians taking those classes necessarily, the advanced ones tend to network more.

But if there's a problem with people submitting and not 'nailing' the genre, shouldn't there be a class to address that problem? Isn't this something that Mr. Laskow discusses on Taxi TV?

Why do we need a rally if we have Taxi TV?

Because some people learn better in a casual classroom setting than by reading a book on their own.

I think Vikki is "Nailing" it. You'd get both advanced people and noobs attending a class on that. Should be taught by someone who's had tons of forwards and some placements.

[cassmcentee]

You've sold me Rebekah!
I withdraw my chat comments...
The idea of Theory/Structure to Genre sounds like it would be fantastic!
I dropped out of my Music Scholarship when I hit my first theory class (with some regrets now)
Cass

[andygabrys]

Why are there classes for noobs that skirt around the basis of music theory but never directly address it in a practical way?

I think because music theory would be hard to compress into 2 hrs. Its a sort of expansive subject that rewards the learner more and more as more time is poured into understanding it too.

Same thing with Genres. I think that's one thing where you develop a greater understanding after some time.


Still......it would be interesting to see something on "nailing genres".

[Paulie]

Too many people get hung up on he term "music theory."

Some people get defensive and say they don't need it, just play by ear and do what sounds good. Others get into the weeds and want to learn modes, chord substitutions, etc. I was surprised to see the negative reaction to this topic, one near and dear to my heart. Here's my bottom line;

Music theory is the foundation of musical literacy. I've taught music in many different ways to students of all levels and ages. The basics of music theory are not even about the notes on the keyboard or Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge. When I teach it, it's about ear training and identifying the things you hear. From a composers viewpoint, if you know what a IV chord resolving to a I chord sounds like, you can write what you hear, If you know what a deceptive cadence sounds like (V resolving to vi instead of I), you can add some new co,or to your composition. But first you need to know what a I chord or a IV chord is. There are also concepts like the circle of fifths that if understood can help you find chords and keys easily.

Better yet, the more you learn about theory, the faster you can identify things in OTHER MUSIC, you know, stuff like A Las or reference tracks. Why does that matter? It helps us work both faster and smarter.

So, in my biased opinion there are plenty of people that could benefit from a basic introduction to music theory and perhaps get the fire to want to learn more. Are there people that are successful in music not knowing a damned thing about theory, or even how to read music? Of course. Is that the best way to work? Not for everyone. I firmly believe that music literacy could help every single Taxi member.

But this is about supply and demand, plus market perception. Based on the chat room not many people perceive the need or value of the topic. So I guess I won't be teaching a session at the Rally this year.

[andygabrys]

...... it's about ear training and identifying the things you hear.......

if you can find a way to teach that in 90 minutes +/- that gives people enough tangible take-aways (perhaps an audio CD of exercises or downloads of same) and gives something that transcends the dry "music theory" that many people find unusable.......

then I would support you to make it happen and I think ML and TAXI should too.

[deankripp]

Hi Rebekah,

Good stuff. I agree with Andy that it might be hard to squeeze theory into a two-hr class, but I like the idea of finding better ways to communicate complex musical ideas.

I also love the idea of "Nailing the Genre" ....so much so that I have spent the last year writing a book called "Demystifying the Genre." (I stole the title from that Dean guy... oh... wait...) In this new book which should be out in late August (it is with the editor for the 2nd time now) I go through the elements of creating 10 common genres used in Film and TV. The book also includes 22 audio cue examples so that the reader can use both written word and ear training to learn.

Although there are 100's of genres I do not address in this book, it is my great hope that the reader will come to understand through the examples I have used, the process I call the "reverse engineering" of recorded music (the taking apart, tearing down and analyzing each element of a particular genre or style of music) and be able to apply this philosophy and process to better build their craft with the goal of being able to successfully record and produce whatever genre they are interested in writing.

...so there you have it. At least a piece of what you are talking about is being addressed

Again, thanks for your great thoughts....

see ya at the RALLY


deano k