Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by Paulie » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:58 pm

Finished the book last week. So much good stuff in here, especially for people that don't know the foundations or basics of musical theory or form. He goes into great detail in the book. I highlighted tons of stuff, here are just some of my favorite quotes (keep in mind the book was written in 1998):

On writing in general.
  • Writers must read. One corollary being that composers must listen.
  • Songwriters are usually working on something and may fear being overtly influenced by a strong outing from a respected colleague. I don;t like to listen to radio - sometimes for three or four days at a time when I'm writing. Often it causes me to forget something I'm trying to remember and at other times I have found musefl subliminally "borrowing" something I did not intend to appropriate. So when an amateur songwriter submits a tape of songs to a professional songwriter in hope of assistance he is committing what is essentially an unnatural act.
  • We learn that words create the colors that poets use to paint images on the mind itself. We come to understand that not all great poetry is lyrical but that all great lyrics are poetic.
  • To be able to quickly jot down a chord pattern over a printed lyric line is to save hundreds of hours "backtracking" in order ro remember what has just been write, especially when there is no recording equipment readily available. The muse surprises capriciously.
On the writing place:
  • It is important to draw an imaginary protective circle around ourselves and step inside. The place where we write is important whether it is a physical room or a spacious loft in the heart and mind. We must clear a safe space around us.
  • There are many pragmatic reasons for having a completely dedicated workplace, whether it is a small room in the home or a separate office/studi or even a favorite boulder in a quiet part of the woods. One of the most important is continuity. We need to be able to leave a work in progress for hours or days at a time and return to find it completely undisturbed.
  • I suffer from intense loneliness while I'm writing and crave human companionship. My assistant bringing me a coup of tea is akin to an angel visiting a doomed man on a desert island with a magical elixir. On the other hand it is virtually impossible for me to abandon self-consciousness and write anything meaningful (particularly a lyric" with another person in the room.
  • Most writers are going to find after four or five hours of intense concentration that they are ready for an Advil and a B movie. What seems to work best for me is a period of intense focus -- say, thirty-five minutes and then a stretch, an infused stare out of the window (since I'm lucky enough to have one) for five minutes or so before returning to the anvil. The right side of the brain goes into rigor mortis if it's pinioned in the same attitude for too long, resulting in frustration, angst, and lack of progress. It is amazing sometimes how tenaciously and blindly we can pursue an artistic goal -- feeding on anger or stubborn will - achieving nothing, only to return the next day and in a more relaxed state see the answer immediately and effortlessly. When working indoors it is important if not completely essential to have a sensory escape - a window with a view or a porch or patio with access to the outside world.
Lots more great stuff in the book on writing. Webb also gets deep into the details of grammar and syntax, especially around proper rhymes and song form. I need to go back and read that section again.

If you are a serious songwriter, or want to get serious about it, I strongly suggest this book. :)
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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by Len911 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:03 pm

If you are a serious songwriter, or want to get serious about it, I strongly suggest this book. :)

At the risk of sounding offensive, :o , though not intending to be, seriously, sometimes I think I take it too seriously, even though I have been accused of not taking it seriously enough, however, well, when I read these things seriously, then I look at the lyrics of say "Up, Up and Away" for instance, or I have a book about melody writing by the author of "Run, Joey, Run", another example, I'm thinking, that I would have to be feeling really goofy, and maybe a little high?, even though I don't use drugs, :shock: if it was me writing those songs. I have to admit that sometimes I dance around the kitchen fixing something to eat, with the dog as my audience, though probably more captured by the possibility of what food I will share, singing parodies of whatever drama or commercials that are airing on the television at the moment, but would never even think about recording and using as serious song writes. :? But maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe it's the goofy that is the serious after all? :lol:
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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by Susanstunes » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:34 am

I have been reading this book slowly and carefully and don't want it to be over it is so good. I love the section on song structure and all his charts and diagrams. Also just the writing itself is intensely descriptive and relatable for anyone trying to make original music. A real find for me! Susan

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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by Paulie » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:07 pm

Webb's writing style can be melodramatic at times, or a little condescending perhaps? Not sure if that's the right word, it is certain one of confidence though. He wrote "Up, Up and Away" when he was 20 and "Macarthur Park" when he was 21, back in 1967 and 1968 respectively. The height of the 60s crazy hippy part of our history.

The sections on lyric writing and song form are very powerful to me as a complete beginner lyiricst. So much to think about!
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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by sansharbour » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:26 am

As far as lyrics go.........
Bernie Taupin had the visual
Jimmy Webb did the unusual but visual as well

"Someone left the cake out in the rain
I don't think that I could take it
Cause it took so long to make it
and I'll never have that recipe again..........

Sung in the midst of swirling orchestral arrangement and with total conviction well, it makes total sense.

That is one lyric section I will always remember
The whole song is incredible

https://youtu.be/wadrAU6baV0

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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by Telefunkin » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:32 am

I had a spell of getting seriously into lyric writing that started in the late 1990's (after many years of happily dabbling), and developed a voracious appetite for reading about it. Jimmy's book was amongst those I bought and read, and although I enjoyed the read I don't recall taking away a great deal of practical advice that I could use, apart from the philosophy (as you are highlighting Paulie). I'm glad some people are liking the book and I don't want to de-merit it in any way, but just to comment that my mind is 'wired-up' to deal better with more pragmatic presentations. So, for anyone else with similar brain circuitry, I'd recommend any of the songwriting books by Sheila Davies. There's no story, but there's certainly loads of fresh perspectives. Oh, and Pat Pattison's offerings (real nice guy with a wicked sense of humour) are also high on my list. No doubt everyone else will also have their favorites.

I also believe that there is a lot to be said for just being happy to write lyrics, whatever the outcome, simply for the pleasure of writing them - provided you value that pleasure over commercial success. Unfortunately, more understanding of what it takes to be a commercial lyric writer took away much of the joy of simply writing for me. I still struggle to 'turn off' my inner editor that constantly reminds me why every line I write sucks! :roll: Jimmy was right there, yes it is hard if you want to write stuff that stands a chance of commercial acceptance, even though we can all just sit down and write something. I'm grateful that I have far less of a problem when creating music, so even if my music is as bad as my lyric writing, there's still a ton of joy for me in the process. :D
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by Len911 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:21 am

I also believe that there is a lot to be said for just being happy to write lyrics, whatever the outcome, simply for the pleasure of writing them - provided you value that pleasure over commercial success. Unfortunately, more understanding of what it takes to be a commercial lyric writer took away much of the joy of simply writing for me. I still struggle to 'turn off' my inner editor that constantly reminds me why every line I write sucks! :roll: Jimmy was right there, yes it is hard if you want to write stuff that stands a chance of commercial acceptance, even though we can all just sit down and write something. I'm grateful that I have far less of a problem when creating music, so even if my music is as bad as my lyric writing, there's still a ton of joy for me in the process. :D
Well said!

I'm still working out my thoughts on lyrics. They seem more important in things like anthems or theater than strictly pop songs, where the melody seems to be much more important.
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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by Paulie » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:37 pm

Some more from this very interesting book:

On creativity and inspiration:
“The whole world, Every waking into dreaming moment of it, is grist for the notebooks mill. Try this experiment: read a book — any book — but to make it interesting, begin to read one that you've read before. With a pencil underline every situation or statement in the first chapter that suggests a song idea, Entering them all in your notebook. Go out on a Saturday and aimlessly wander the town you live in, observing people, animals and structures, intently searching for hidden insights that suggest song ideas. Put them all in your notebook. With a little effort you will soon have dozens if not hundreds of ideas and observations recorded. Get in the habit of doing this every time you read or watch a movie, talk to a friend or travel. At least in an observational sense try to become a novelist. Look for deeper meanings behind the seemingly trivial and write them down. You may find that your notebook begins to take on the character of a journal. All the better — you're not only compiling hundreds of song ideas but writing your memoirs, which will be worth a bundle when they induct you into the Songwriters Hall of Fame.”
or this:
"I write lying down so I can go to sleep easily. I write about 10 minutes and sleep for two, on the average," Quipped Stephen Sondheim and a lecture, implying a deep connection between creativity and sleep. It is at those times, particularly when falling asleep, that the subconscious is acutely horrible to suggestion. Try it. If you have a work in progress go to sleep thinking about it. Concentrate on some specific aspect of the problem as you drift off. Sometimes the answer will come to you before you are fully asleep. Other times you may obtain results on the opposite end of the process as you awaken. Results will vary a great deal according to the individual; you should not be disappointed if nothing happens the first time or even the second. Over time however, the subconscious can be trained to automatically enter this mode at naptime and solutions will almost certainly begin to service."
Paul "yo paulie!" Croteau
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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by jonnybutter » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:04 pm

Sounds like a good book to me. Ppl laugh at 'Up Up and Away', but he also wrote 'Wichita Lineman' - a great and unique song. His own recording of it is pretty good, believe it or not.

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Re: Jimmy Webb's book "The Tunesmith"

Post by SteveK » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:11 pm

It appears the bottom line may be:
"Work hard and work smart"

That's why I appreciate this TAXI forum so much. The comradery and the education are uplifting and so beneficial. Because of this, I can work smart, work hard, and find success!

BTW, of the books I have read on songwriting, I believe Ralph Murphy's book, "THE BOOK" is the best I have found.

Steven

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