EQ...composition...discussion...thoughts?

[Len911]

Eq as it relates to composition and arrangement doesn't seem to be a subject that I see discussed too often, though it did in a recent taxi tv episode with Rob Chiarelli and Michael.
https://youtu.be/OA2X73ybKsU?t=49m5s

Eq in mixing terms almost seems separate, though I don't know how it could be. Creative knob turning maybe.

Fundamental notes with their harmonics and overtones and formants. Maybe it's because the Q and band width is large enough to not make much difference?

But what if you have a C major triad, and the C is played by the bass, E is a vocal, and G is a flute, what happens if you eq each instrument and note separately, or even all together? Is it possible by eq'ing to change the sound of the chord, or even the chord or how the chord is recognized by an analyzer? Idk

There are saturation plugins that can increase or decrease the harmonics, or even which ones, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th... And each harmonic is generally known for imparting certain characteristics.

Then you have pitch tracking eq's like:

Traditional equalizers are set to fixed frequency ranges, but in practice, fundamentals and the harmonic series change along with the pitch of an instrument or vocal. SurferEQ tracks the pitch of your instrument or a vocal track - and can change the EQ frequency accordingly in real time, giving you incredibly natural-sounding results. Simply set any of the bands to a desired harmonic and SurferEQ's real-time pitch-detection engine flawlessly does its thing, always relevant to the music

It's understandable to eq or damp a strange resonance maybe coming from a mic, or just use a different mic or position?

Should you pitch check your drums? Tune them to be harmonic, or just accept them as a possible dissonance, and how might they affect eq'ing?

I suppose modern western music is primarily harmonic, however, I wonder if it isn't processed more like counterpoint If you could see what the composer originally intended and played (notation), and what actually is recorded (analyzer with algorithms applied), sometimes you might have some interesting chords at certain points in time not contained in the original notation, and how much of that might be attributed to eq?? idk.

Maybe I'm just overthinking all this, or maybe I'll just not use an eq unless I have a specific reason to?? Actually I seldom use eq anyway, so why is my head hurting?

[Danny]

Len,

You may be thinking too much into this. A "Real" composer will have the experience to know the frequency range of the instruments in different sections. He/She would not have two sections playing opposing parts together whereby their frequencies would clash or cause muddy resonance or dissonance.

If you are talking about pop music, always try to make the sounds work together BEFORE you start worrying about EQing.

Trust your ear and intuition before you worry about Spectrum Analyzers, saturation, etc.

Good monitors and a "Tuned" room will work wonders..

[cassmcentee]

Should you pitch check your drums? Tune them to be harmonic, or just accept them as a possible dissonance, and how might they affect eq'ing?

Thanks for bringing the topic up Len!
In my opinion the drums should always be TUNED!!!! (Just as important as tuning your bass)
I also tune my cymbals/claps/snare in EZDrummer2
I've had to teach numerous drummers the importance of this in the studio.
A kick in the wrong key would make my bass sound like dog poo

[Len911]

Len,

You may be thinking too much into this. A "Real" composer will have the experience to know the frequency range of the instruments in different sections. He/She would not have two sections playing opposing parts together whereby their frequencies would clash or cause muddy resonance or dissonance.

If you are talking about pop music, always try to make the sounds work together BEFORE you start worrying about EQing.

Trust your ear and intuition before you worry about Spectrum Analyzers, saturation, etc.

Good monitors and a "Tuned" room will work wonders..

Better arrangement= less eq problems. check.

"trust your ear", I'm not sure about this one,lol! As Rob Chiarelli mentioned implied harmonics by eliminating the fifth. If the third is left out, there is no implication of major or minor for the triad.

The ear is only an interpreter and can be very forgiving, unless you have a very trained ear. It's good at comparisons, so if you listen to all songs with say the bottom end rolled off at 500hz, it can differentiate between the different songs, but doesn't really "notice" the missing low end, unless you have a different speaker where the low end isn't rolled off to compare it to. Another example of not trusting the ear, is the "myth" of perfect pitch??
http://www.news-medical.net/news/201306 ... think.aspx
Then they have a later study where you can be taught pitch...
You can't really trust your ear, unless you know how your brain is working,lol!
"Frequent breaks", why, it's not that the music is changing, it's that the ear or brain adjusts. It's not a bad thing really, but it's biased, or focused mainly in favor of speech frequencies. It has to adjust constantly to comb filtering and less than perfect listening environments. It's not used to listening in a vacuum or pristine environment. How important is good monitors and a tuned room, important yes, but is it really as important as reference tracks listening in the same environment, on the same equipment?? idk

[Len911]

Should you pitch check your drums? Tune them to be harmonic, or just accept them as a possible dissonance, and how might they affect eq'ing?

Thanks for bringing the topic up Len!
In my opinion the drums should always be TUNED!!!! (Just as important as tuning your bass)
I also tune my cymbals/claps/snare in EZDrummer2
I've had to teach numerous drummers the importance of this in the studio.
A kick in the wrong key would make my bass sound like dog poo

Cool! I've mainly seen mention of snares being tuned, not so much on the other instruments in a drum kit, besides timpani or steel drums...

Now it needs to be further up on my priorities list.

[cassmcentee]

Yep! Ring outs in Toms are very critical too, especially in the lower registers...

[andygabrys]

........As Rob Chiarelli mentioned implied harmonics by eliminating the fifth. If the third is left out, there is no implication of major or minor for the triad. ......

IDK about that. if it were sine waves maybe it would be pure and hollow without the third.

But any "real" sounds have a harmonic series present.

fundamental
octave
oct +5th
2 octaves
2 octaves plus major 3
2 octaves plus 5th
2 octaves plus flat 7th
3 octaves

So by some stretch of the imagination just playing the root tends to conjure a vague sound of a major minor 7th chord in the classical vernacular (or dominant 7th in Jazz language).

besides most music is based on a diatonic chord universe and so even playing an open fifth will still make the ear hear it as a major or minor chord as fits the diatonic scale.

like if you played a series of diatonic fifths in C with the roots C, G, A, E, F, C, F, G it would be pretty hard to hear that as anything other than C Maj, G, Maj, Amin, Emin, F Maj, C, Maj, F Maj, G Maj.

no?

[mojobone]

Basically, you want to avoid an arrangement situation that has to be 'fixed' with EQ, because it doesn't, really. This is why I mix mono first, before panning anything.

[Kolstad]

Should you pitch check your drums? Tune them to be harmonic, or just accept them as a possible dissonance, and how might they affect eq'ing?

Thanks for bringing the topic up Len!
In my opinion the drums should always be TUNED!!!! (Just as important as tuning your bass)
I also tune my cymbals/claps/snare in EZDrummer2
I've had to teach numerous drummers the importance of this in the studio.
A kick in the wrong key would make my bass sound like dog poo

Brilliant topic, drum tuning. Wonder why we don't discuss this more.
How should they be tuned, and what about modes?

Cass, any insights?

[Len911]

besides most music is based on a diatonic chord universe and so even playing an open fifth will still make the ear hear it as a major or minor chord as fits the diatonic scale.

like if you played a series of diatonic fifths in C with the roots C, G, A, E, F, C, F, G it would be pretty hard to hear that as anything other than C Maj, G, Maj, Amin, Emin, F Maj, C, Maj, F Maj, G Maj.

no?

Well, what about the diatonic minor? Cmin, Ddim, EMaj, Fmin, Gmajor?, AMaj, BMaj
If the fifth chord is frequently substituted with a major instead of minor, it doesn't appear to carry much weight in determining whether the key is major or minor?? Idk

Isn't it the fifth that is more important in determining an augmented or diminished triad? The third determines major or minor of a triad.

And a sus 2 or sus 4, leaves out the third, adding tension, taking away the major or minor quality, and wants to be resolved?

Andy, I am not a trained music theorist, and you are really pushing my ignorance on this and forcing me to say things that may not even be true!rofl! I'm making it up as I go!

What's that say about bass players that tend to emphasize the roots and fifths? Is it because they can use the same bass line for both major and minor? Idk Surely that isn't the only reason.

I don't have a clue about the sine wave, harmonic series, or jazz mentions. Who knows what's in the imagination of jazz players, Jazz speak might as well be word salad to me. I'm not that sophisticated or refined. Key word, clueless!

Ok, I found this on Wikipedia, about "sine waves and harmonic series"

While it is true that electronically produced periodic tones (e.g. square waves or other non-sinusoidal waves) have "harmonics" that are whole number multiples of the fundamental frequency, practical instruments do not all have this characteristic. For example, higher "harmonics"' of piano notes are not true harmonics but are "overtones" and can be very sharp, i.e. a higher frequency than given by a pure harmonic series. This is especially true of instruments other than stringed or brass/woodwind ones, e.g., xylophone, drums, bells etc., where not all the overtones have a simple whole number ratio with the fundamental frequency.

Practical instruments have formants, or timbre filters (I made that term up)*,lol!
The cavities they resonate in taint the "pure harmonic series". See also Tessitura.

*I did make that term up, but thanks to google,lol, I found out that I didn't originally coin the phrase!
https://books.google.com/books?id=-M3sA ... 22&f=false