Two questions regarding copyright

[thespicylentil]

Hello Everyone,

1. Hypothetical scenario here but say I have a song initially planned as an instrumental. I register the copyright for that song. I try pitching it around but no luck and then find a singer to put vocals on it (same arrangement). I think it sounds a lot better and want to pitch this version instead. Now say the vocal tune and lyrics are his idea. Is it possible to just alter the previous registration of the copyright and add him as a claimant? Or is this considered a new 'song' and I have to submit this song again (basically another $35 submission fee)?

2. In general if your pitching a song or uploading on soundcloud to get some exposure do you register the copyright beforehand or wait until someone actually wants to use it? Is it really a waste of time unless you land some amazing placement deal? I am just concerned about something ridiculous happening such as someone ripping it from soundcloud, registering the copyright under their name, and then successfully pitching it around and being able to make income off of it.... I don't know if this has actually happened to anyone but perhaps the more experienced taxi members can chime in on this?

Regards,
Adith

[hummingbird]

1. Hypothetical scenario here but say I have a song initially planned as an instrumental. I register the copyright for that song. I try pitching it around but no luck and then find a singer to put vocals on it (same arrangement). I think it sounds a lot better and want to pitch this version instead. Now say the vocal tune and lyrics are his idea. Is it possible to just alter the previous registration of the copyright and add him as a claimant? Or is this considered a new 'song' and I have to submit this song again (basically another $35 submission fee)?

- That's complex. Sounds like you were pitching to Film TV. If you registered the Sound Recording of the Instrumental then you are now adding something to that Sound Recording, called Words & Music. You could just do a copyright for the Words and Music BUT you might run into trouble as you have the Instrumental bed registered separately if you are offered any kind of Exclusive deal. I'd suggest contacting the LoC to ask their recommendation. If this is because you want to retain ownership of the Instrumental bed... that's your choice but since the melody and words were inspired by the instrumental why not be fair and each share with the other? You can make a co-write agreement that says each will get their part back after a reversion period, say 5 years, if nothing comes of it. JMHO

2. In general if your pitching a song or uploading on soundcloud to get some exposure do you register the copyright beforehand or wait until someone actually wants to use it? Is it really a waste of time unless you land some amazing placement deal? I am just concerned about something ridiculous happening such as someone ripping it from soundcloud, registering the copyright under their name, and then successfully pitching it around and being able to make income off of it.... I don't know if this has actually happened to anyone but perhaps the more experienced taxi members can chime in on this?

I don't post most stuff public on Soundcloud because I don't like their TOS. The truth is anything you write is copyrighted as soon as you put it in tangible form. Registration just helps you prove you wrote it first. If anyone made big money off your work then you'd have a case. Whether or not to register is up to you. Some leave that to the publisher or library. Do remember you don't have to register each song individually for $35. You can register a collection once every few weeks or months as needed.

All of the above is just opinion.

[Casey H]

1. Hypothetical scenario here but say I have a song initially planned as an instrumental. I register the copyright for that song. I try pitching it around but no luck and then find a singer to put vocals on it (same arrangement). I think it sounds a lot better and want to pitch this version instead. Now say the vocal tune and lyrics are his idea. Is it possible to just alter the previous registration of the copyright and add him as a claimant? Or is this considered a new 'song' and I have to submit this song again (basically another $35 submission fee)?

Disclaimer: Not a lawyer. You can file a new copyright for the vocal version, indicating it is a derivative work, based on the previous copyright. You may want to contact the US Copyright Office for exact details on how to fill out the form.

2. In general if your pitching a song or uploading on soundcloud to get some exposure do you register the copyright beforehand or wait until someone actually wants to use it? Is it really a waste of time unless you land some amazing placement deal? I am just concerned about something ridiculous happening such as someone ripping it from soundcloud, registering the copyright under their name, and then successfully pitching it around and being able to make income off of it.... I don't know if this has actually happened to anyone but perhaps the more experienced taxi members can chime in on this?

I wouldn't worry that someone who ripped your track off Soundcloud (or other online site) will file a copyright on it. Most of the (small amount of) theft has been people ripping tracks and then placing them in Royalty Free Libraries to make money on track sales. Since filing copyrights involves fees, it's unlikely that these thieves would bother.

Although filing copyrights is a good idea, keep in mind that stealing is pretty rare and the courts right now won't even accept a copyright infringement lawsuit unless you have damages of at least $75,000. Best way to save money on copyright fees is to submit "collections", a bunch of tracks for one fee. In general, my personal approach would be not to hold off posting on Soundcloud or pitching your work while waiting until you have filed your copyright. Every now and then when you have amassed some number of tracks (e.g. 10), you could copyright a collection.

Again, not a lawyer.

HTH
Casey

[thespicylentil]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I now have a clearer idea of what to do. In response to hummingbird I do want to give a equitable share with the lyricist or singer or whomever I collaborate with but sometimes you have ideas that you think can work as instrumental by itself but then things change. Just want to make sure the person added on can get his fair share of the copyright as well. The derivative works filing scenario would work well I think.

Regards,
Adith

[mojobone]

1) is considered a derivative work, if a prior copyright registration exists for the original instrumental version.

2) as far as I'm aware, this hasn't happened, yet.



Also, what Casey said.