Thanks for the input Dave

Yes, that does make sense. I haven't done little mixes down to stems (unless I need stems) on anything. I've never had a problem running out of CPU power either so I guess that's why I just keep everything as it is.

I guess the issue is really this, I never used to have a problem as I never used to use a limiter. I would simply pull my volumes back so they didn't clip. Of course doing this makes things too quiet. So, in my attempt to win the loudness war I've been working on trying to make my tracks louder. In this case it might have been the difference between getting forwarded and not but I'll never know.

My typical setup will go something like this...

FYI, I use Digital Performer

I will bus all my guitars to their own fader or faders as well as bass and vocals (if I have any). When I'm getting closer to finishing I will send all of my outputs, MIDI and live instruments to one bus. I'll call it the mix bus. In DP I then have a Master fader for my mix bus. On my mix bus fader I will usually put a signal chain that goes: comp, eq, limiter. I usually use a 3 band compressor or DP has a plug in called Master Works Leveler which I use instead of the compressor sometimes.

The output from the mix bus fader goes to my master fader where I will sometimes do another eq then limiter.

I have a seperate bus for my reverb which gets sent prefader from all of the various track groupings.

I should mention that of course I will have compression, eg and a limiter on my guitar groups as well (as needed)

It would seem to me that maybe I just need to back off my levels a bit more so I'm not getting squished by my limiter so much. I guess its a tight rope walk between getting things loud enough and having it over compressed

Not if you do it well.



In essence it does what I do by hand, though it's compressing not level adjusting. It squashes things relative to a particular track. Having said that, I've not yet bothered to learn how to do sidechaining as I find it only takes me seconds to curve volumes as needed. But it's on my "to-learn" list.

Also, what Dave wrote about is how I mix as well. I don't work straight from the instruments. I use either bounced tracks and/or mini mixes.

Two other quick ideas - use K-metering for your mixing, if you're not already. It's a set of standards developed by Bob Katz. Doing that improved my mixes dramatically. Voxengo has a free (quality) plugin that provides K-meters. I think it might be their spectrum analyser.

And use high-quality compressor/limiters. I tried fudging it for ages with cheapies and the DAW-included versions, but once I upgraded to pro-level compressor and limiter the difference was immediate and remarkable.

I swear by iZotope Ozone 5 for limiting, multiband dynamics and stereo imaging. For compression I like to use T-Racks Opto Compressor right before Ozone. I never do much gain reduction with it, but it really helps glue the mix together. I also really like the Linear Phase EQ in the T-Racks bundle. Sounds more transparent than the one in Ozone, IMO; the interface is cleaner and it is slightly more flexible. I'll admit that I don't use metering systems enough, but the meter that comes with T-Racks is good. Spectrum analysis and volume and loudness metering....no K metering though. Especially good for comparing your mix levels to other commercial mixes.

Both bundles are a little pricey and might have a learning curve for non-engineers, but they are an invaluable investment and are the only self-mastering/mixing tools I need.