3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

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3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by superblonde » Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:05 pm

Are the 3" or 4" monitors even worth considering?

~$700 pair. Genelec 8010A 3 inch Powered Studio Monitor

~$1100 pair. Genelec 8020D 4 inch Powered Studio Monitor

~$800 pair. KRK V4 S4 4 inch Powered Studio Monitor



Disbelief that these sizes would accurately represent anything below ~80 Hz and that is the important bass guitar or kick region.
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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by garrettmiller » Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:29 pm

I'm using the Genelec 8030's (4") but I'm also using a 7050 sub. It can really help or destroy your mixes :lol: depending on if your room is treated well.

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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by jdstamper » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:15 pm

In the reviews I've read over the years, mostly in Recording magazine, small monitors are always lacking in bass response, unless you also have a sub-woofer ... in which case all 3 speakers need to be set up pretty carefully or "calibrated". Although clearly many small monitors are continuously improving in bass performance as the technology advances.

Outside of a sub-woofer, you may overcome the bass issue by getting very familiar with how your monitors sound on both your recordings and reference material, using headphones and other speaker systems to check your mix (the car, etc), lots of A/B comparison, and metering for what it's worth.

For me, I'm not sure I could get by with such small monitors at this point, unless I had the sub-woofer. I'm used to my old Mackie HR824's. But I believe the most important factor is getting your ears trained to make good mixes on whatever monitors you're using, that's true of any monitors, no matter the size or cost.

I also think reading the reviews is critical, especially when considering small monitors.

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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:06 am

I managed quite happily with a 5" woofer for 10 years ( Adam A7's ) but I have 7" woofers on my current APS Klassik 2020's and the difference in how low they go is quite marked. I had thought about whether adding the matching Adam sub was the way to go but everything I've ever read said in a room as small as mine it might cause more problems than it solved so I got something with a good reputation for low end withing my budget.

It partly depends on the size your room , what genres you make , room treatment etc so better to have the right speaker for the space you have to work in than any nominal size of woofer. WIth smaller speakers you probably need to check the low end with some sort of metering to make sure your'e not exporting a load of sub bass that you can't hear.

Ultimately you tend to get used to whatever you have so any decent monitor can work.

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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by superblonde » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:48 pm

~$1200 pair. Focal Shape 40 4 inch Powered Studio Monitor . 60Hz-35kHz

~$800 pair. KRK V4 S4 4 inch Powered Studio Monitor. 58Hz to 19Khz


Seems like I'll have to stick with headphones.

I wonder if having monitors really matters anyway, because,
- the screeners use mid-price-range headphones as well
and
- music supervisors may preview tracks on smartphones or tablets
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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:25 am

superblonde wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:48 pm
I wonder if having monitors really matters anyway, because,
- the screeners use mid-price-range headphones as well
and
- music supervisors may preview tracks on smartphones or tablets
It's not really about pleasing the Screeners, it's about producing broadcast quality consistently. Just about every pro mixer says this is easier to achieve using monitors but not impossible using headphones.

Mixes have to translate once they leave your studio so no matter what the end user is listening on the mix doesn't fall apart. Mixes made on monitors generally work quite well on headphones without too much adjustment, but mixes made on headphones can sound surprisingly different when played back over speakers.

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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by Telefunkin » Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:02 am

superblonde wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:48 pm
I wonder if having monitors really matters anyway, because,
- the screeners use mid-price-range headphones as well
and
- music supervisors may preview tracks on smartphones or tablets
The whole point is to find a way of making your mixes translate across a wide range listening devices so everyone has the best chance of enjoying them, not to second guess screeners or music supervisors. So far, its generally accepted that good monitors in a good room is the best way to achieve that. If you like you can treat your room, 'flatten' the frequency response of your monitors, make your monitors simulate other listening devices, 'flatten' your headphone response, make your headphones sound like expensive monitors in an expensive studio, etc. However you choose to achieve it, the objective remains the same though. If your mixes sound good on everything you're doing OK.

I suspect most people here will have far less than perfect monitoring (which would be an infinite, and infinitely costly challenge), and yet most will turn out perfectly acceptable music. If you can get used to whatever monitoring you have you should be able to get acceptable results.

[I'd also like to bet that at the start of our journey to mixing nirvana, many of us would have struggled to make a mix sound good on any single listening device, let alone all of them, even if we'd have had the best monitors in the world! :)]
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by superblonde » Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:10 am

I wonder if monitors only need to be good enough to get past the screeners and music supervisor (& producer) because they are the only ones listening to the audio with both trained ears and at full volume. In comparison the audience would not be the best judge because they will only hear the music track as a background element often under dialogue and at purposely mixed low-volume levels.

In considering monitor speaker size it seems odd that the speakers are not rated for volume of airspace which is likely the critical factor in the lower size ranges. Physically larger spaces presumably have very different responses and perhaps the volume of air would be a more important contributor to audio quality than surface reflections. Which is more important in a small space: room treatment, or distance to surfaces (walls, ceiling) whether treated or not.

It seems the best choice would be a monitor which is bundled with calibration features (i.e. microphone & EQ software) even regardless of size. Or for headphones, using calibration software.
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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by Telefunkin » Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:24 pm

"....get past...." ? :o
You make it sound like you're trying to find a way of cheating in some exam. Here's a few things that you might consider ......

- The best way to 'get past' screeners and music supervisors is to give them good quality music that is well produced and exactly what they're looking for. If you can do that then why wouldn't they want it? Monitors are just another tool (but only one of many) along the path to making that happen.

- If you ran a music library wouldn't you want to include the best quality music you could get? Libraries have to compete to sell their content to the end user, so you can understand why the bar is high.

- When all of us listen to music on radio or TV we all have a quality expectation, and if that music was sub-par for any reason we'd soon notice, with or without 'trained ears'. Our job is to make music that lives up to the quality expectations of everyone in the chain so it gets that far, otherwise it'll never be heard.

- Given a perfect monitoring environment most of us would still not turn out a perfect mix, whereas skilled mixers could probably still do an impressive job using any old setup.

- Good monitoring should make mixing/mastering easier for us, but despite what we'd like to believe, our bad mixes are rarely down to just bad monitoring, and fixing the monitoring wouldn't always make those mixes much better.

- Given an imperfect monitoring environment (like we all have to varying degrees), the best you can do is find a way to make the most of what you have and work with it. Then instead of worrying about it you can worry about all the other important stuff that goes into good music production for sync licensing.
Graham (UK). Still composing a little faster than decomposing, and 100% HI.

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Re: 3" or 4" studio reference monitors?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:34 pm

The only thing we need to "get past " is the inability to make licensable music that's useful to others.

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