A little experiment

[Cameloide]

I've noticed a lot of times after a person receives a forward or return they'll post the screener feedback in the forum to see how on-point the forum members think it is, and usually the consensus is agreement with the screener. So I figured I'd do a little experiment and get feedback from the forum first, before showing the screener's feedback, to see if the agreement rate is about the same. So would you forward this song? And if not, give me your 1 MAIN reason why it doesn't make the cut.

We submitted this song - https://soundcloud.com/vince-johnston-2 ... y-plunkett

to this brief -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of "GOTHIC AMERICANA" INSTRUMENTALS are needed by a Music Licensing Company that specializes in music for content creators as well as TV shows and Film projects!
This Company is searching for Instrumentals in All Tempos that could be found on a playlist with the following references:

"In Hell I'll Be in Good Company" by The Dead South
"Canary" by Joy Williams
"Sleeping on the Blacktop" by Colter Wall

Although the references have vocals, please submit Instrumentals only for this request.
Please send well-written Gothic Americana Instrumentals with a dark sound and style, over all. Your submissions should have moody guitar riffs, driving drums, and
top-notch melodies. Organic-based instrumentation will suit your submissions best. If you do plan on using any virtual instruments, they need to sound like the real thing –
nothing low-quality or obviously MIDI-driven will work for this pitch.

TAXI Tip: We recommend sticking with one mood throughout each Instrumental you submit so they remain cohesive.

Your submissions should be at least 2 minutes in length and no longer than 4 minutes. Non-faded, buttoned/stinger endings will work best for this request. Do NOT copy the
referenced material in any way, shape, or form. Use it only as a guide for tempo, tone, and overall vibe. Broadcast Quality is needed.

This Company offers both EXCLUSIVE and NON-EXCLUSIVE deals. The specific deal points will be handled on a case-by-case basis. If you’re inclined to sign an Exclusive deal,
please don’t submit material that’s already signed with other libraries or publishers for this pitch. You must own or control your Master and Composition to submit to this
opportunity. Please submit as many Instrumentals as you’d like, online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI. Submissions must be received no
later than 11:59 PM (PDT) on Wednesday, April 14th, 2021. TAXI # S210414GA
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[gitanosoy]

No I wouldn't forward it: No edit points and not sure if the whistling works, it starts with a lot of instruments and nothing is taken out and brought back to develop, it just stays the same as they say"it needs more developing arc"

[Telefunkin]

Its 50/50 for me. I really like the track but the refs are more uptempo and have the driving drums that are mentioned in the listing, whereas although your track is dark its is also laid back and less driving. Therefore, it depends on how important the screeners consider that element to be. Also, Gitanosoy makes some good points about edit points and development, so I'm on the fence. However, you've already collected a few things that you might not have considered but could trip up the submission.

I think peer review is a great way to get a consensus of opinions from folk with a broad spectrum of experience and taste, but 2nd guessing screeners? Good luck with that!

[cassmcentee]

Very Nice Piece!
I have a lot of Gothic Americana out there being used...
Upon first listening I'm noticing a lack of Edit Points
I would break it up a little bit, give the drummer a rest...
My first impression was that the attitude/mood of this piece was a little on the lite side
The ending drums feel stumbled, I would sharpen up the ending (very important in this business)
There also seems to be an excess of noise coming from the banjo as well as the tail of the tune
Here is my version for the same listing, I did not submit it as I am still working on it...

Feel free to critique it as well
Cheers,
Cass

[johnnyrowing]

I agree with what was posted by others . .. but . . . I won't repeat.

I'll add a new reason I wouldn't forward. This actually feels quite cheerful to me. Ha! The instrumentation is great and clearly Americana. I just don't really get a dark or gothic feel from it at all.

By the way, it would be awesome if you would post the feedback (once you feel you have enough peer input). I'm going to submit to the Vocal Version of Gothic Americana that is due on the 29th. I bet I will get the same listener as you had. So, any insight that you could provide could be helpful as I finalize the tracks.

I hope this helps you as you continue to embrace improvement.

Best wishes,
Johnny

[cosmicdolphin]

I got 4 seconds in and thought return.

Instantly does not have the same feel as the Refs for me as you come in with a full drum sound when I felt that one of the key things was they had very sparse percussion, maybe just finger snaps or a flappy distant 4 to the floor kick

Your track has more of a Jazzy vibe to me than Gothic. It's no where near as sparse as the Refs. It's a good track though.

Mark

[lesmac]

Can I join the party? Of course.

Ok, nice track , playing and vibe.

I'd return.

1. Drum composition and sound.

2. Too much competition among instruments. A more sparse arrange would be desirable.

3.Put a de-esser on the plucked instrument with the HF pick/finger noise or play it again.


I'm guilty of all of the above!

The process is often to throw everything at it arrangement wise in the throes of creative passion then clean up the mess afterwards.

I think if you try to always look for the space between the instruments and be fearless with mute/volume automation
that can be a very good thing.

[Cameloide]

Thanks for playing guys! You all got the return part right, so congrats. So here's the feedback from the screener -
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What I like most about this song -

You deliver a solid base progression, but the undercurrent could be supported with a less static percussive element.

I think you could improve this song by -

I could hear a less mechanical approach to the drums to loosen up the energy of the track. Note songs like "Sleeping on the Blacktop" by Colter Wall for reference.
I returned or forwarded this song because

Track energy leans stiff/mechanical.
Additional things I noticed...

Instrumentation feels stiff or over-quantized
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And that's the extent of it. So he says the playing of a live drummer, who spent years touring and recording with a grammy-winning Americana artist, is too static and mechanical (which is defined as "produced by machines" and/or "a person not showing thought or spontaneity") and then points me to a tune where it's literally nothing more than the same kick and clap sound generated by a machine. I deciphered it too mean essentially what a lot of you guys are saying, I should've brought the drums in later and muted a couple spots for "edit" points. I'm not second guessing the forward. I thought that all but one of the forwards were more deserving. The one with the out of tune fiddle seemed a bit of a stretch. But I do question the ability of the screener to communicate critiques clearly. Imagine me telling the drummer, "they said all we need is for you to redo the drums but try to be less static and mechanical this time to loosen up the energy of the track." He would probably say, "Ok...what the fuck does that mean?" I know if somebody told me that as a guitarist that would be my question. That can be interpreted a 100 different ways.

And would addressing that one issue make it a marketable track? Not judging by you guy's critiques. Many of y'all touched on the drums, but not a one said anything about mechanical or, one of my favorites, "over-quantized". And you all managed to express the "static" critique in a more understandable and actionable manner, "bring drums in later and it needs edit points". In hindsight, it seems to me that the main issue really is the track isn't sparse enough and there's too many instruments fighting for space, as some of y'all pointed out as well. None of which the screener mentioned saying only "you delivered a solid base progression".

Could it benefit from a more focused/less distracting mix and a stronger developmental arc? Sure...I'm going to try to exaggerate that in the remix and clean it up. But saying nothing comes in and out and the track just stays the same isn't quite the case either, not to say it couldn't be done better. Without laying it out in detail there are basically eight 8-bar sections and 7 of them differ in the instrumentation and/or parts played. But point taken, I need to start with less, and potentially bring the 2nd verse down to the bone too to be able to build it up more on the 2nd half.

As far as the noise, the running water sound at the end is percussion, made from goat hooves or something. Gees, haven't y'all heard of Tom Waits?

Thanks for the feedback though. I'm gonna remix it and submit it directly to another library and if they pick it up I'll post here for y'all to hear the changes.

[cassmcentee]

When I typed "...give the drummer a rest"
I originaly typed "...give the drum machine a rest"
Thought there was a chance they were real, changed it to Drummer.

[lesmac]

If you put as much effort into your next track as you do on your critique on the screener’s feedback you should be on a winner. It wasn’t right for the listing. Don’t expect feedback from screeners to be perfect. A Grammy award winning whatever can still make a performance sound sterile. Like Cass I thought it sounded like midi drums at first.

You got your feedback from the forum.
I might not take the bait again now I know there is a hook in there.

Lots of people post about how long they or someone has played an instrument. It’s usually in a rant.

Library owners browse here and some things may stand out where they think “Gee is it going to be hassle free working with this person “. There are thousands of tracks out there worse or better. You can make a few tweaks and shop it elsewhere. It may or may not get placed even with the same drum track. I think the issue here is you have to cop it on the chin. Let it go and preserve you public demeanour.