A Milestone! (Tunesat Detection #2000)

[boinkeee2000]

casey, what's your percentage of detected/missed placements per tunesat?

It's impossible to know. Since ASCAP pays on a survey basis, not based on each actual broadcast, nothing to compare to. I don't think about it much. For me, it's just a toy to SOMETIMES get a heads up that a track of mine was used, especially if it is something new. Once a track is getting rerun over and over like on a reality show, it's certainly anybody's guess.

It did help me 1-2 times on placements that had decent pay. One sizable Y&R placement was detected but I never got a cue sheet. I was able to go back to the library who then investigated and got it fixed. Last fall, it picked up a 1 minute placement on CNN Headline News for which I still don't have a cue sheet. I need to keep an eye out on that one (it's at the 6 month point now) and if the cue sheet doesn't show up in the next 3-6 months, talk to the publisher. Luckily, I saw the library name in the end credits of the show.

As many of you know, ASCAP (don't know about BMI) will not accept a Tunesat detection as proof of usage. So the main value is having info to go back to the publisher with. This isn't always possible with cues in multiple re-title libraries, of course.

YMMV
Casey

ahh, thought you were BMI, on my last BMI statement they missed about 60%...mostly cbs sports, A&E and pretty much anything animal planet. in fairness, they are pretty accurate with MTV/VH1 and for some reason german tv lol

[SubRivers]

Looking beyond the argument about TOS etc.

The whole PRO system should move from the model that was already 19th century in the 20th century to a detection model ala TuneSat.

So if I was the CEO of Tunesat I would be looking at that as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

And the strategy is working just peachy - I doubt the multiple accounts worry them at all as it is pressure on the PROs

It is probably why they don't allow Tunesat detections as evidence.

It will still be obscure as to how one detection is worth x times another detection for the same show on the same network etc.

but losing the cue sheets and "surveys" will open things up to full transparency of what was used and when at least.

Then the only murky part will be what you get paid.

[SubRivers]

Just as a follow up - promos definitely seem to be the usages that fall through the gaps of the existing system.

I have had 3 promos and of them only one paid out and it happened to be the one that had 10x LESS air time than the other two according to Tunesat.
All 3 were on very similar channels payout wise from past experience.

Judging by the payout on the one actually did receive royalties for - if all 3 had paid out I should have been able to buy a top of the range PRS/Taylor etc.

So I vote for a Tunesat model for the "survey" worldwide

[Casey H]

That's a violation of their terms of service ...

I just spent some time on their TOS page trying to find this provision and did not see it. Maybe I'm just missing it? There's a lot there, naturally.

https://tunesat.com/tunesatportal/home/terms

From TOS, Registration and Security:
You are permitted to establish one account and to access your account by means of an Internet connection (which we do not provide).

I don't want to discuss this anymore. I expressed an opinion and am done with it. Some will agree, some won't.

[Casey H]

casey, what's your percentage of detected/missed placements per tunesat?

It's impossible to know. Since ASCAP pays on a survey basis, not based on each actual broadcast, nothing to compare to. I don't think about it much. For me, it's just a toy to SOMETIMES get a heads up that a track of mine was used, especially if it is something new. Once a track is getting rerun over and over like on a reality show, it's certainly anybody's guess.

It did help me 1-2 times on placements that had decent pay. One sizable Y&R placement was detected but I never got a cue sheet. I was able to go back to the library who then investigated and got it fixed. Last fall, it picked up a 1 minute placement on CNN Headline News for which I still don't have a cue sheet. I need to keep an eye out on that one (it's at the 6 month point now) and if the cue sheet doesn't show up in the next 3-6 months, talk to the publisher. Luckily, I saw the library name in the end credits of the show.

As many of you know, ASCAP (don't know about BMI) will not accept a Tunesat detection as proof of usage. So the main value is having info to go back to the publisher with. This isn't always possible with cues in multiple re-title libraries, of course.

YMMV
Casey

ahh, thought you were BMI, on my last BMI statement they missed about 60%...mostly cbs sports, A&E and pretty much anything animal planet. in fairness, they are pretty accurate with MTV/VH1 and for some reason german tv lol

A lot of my Y&R placements on CBS were not picked up. I knew about them through my publisher and was able to watch/record them. Interestingly, some of those same shows not picked up on CBS were picked up on soap cable channel that would run them later in the day. Yea, it picks up a lot of reality TV stuff on MTV, TruTV, Discovery, etc. It's definitely not something to hang your financial well being hat on. But heck, for free I take what I can get.

[Casey H]

Looking beyond the argument about TOS etc.

The whole PRO system should move from the model that was already 19th century in the 20th century to a detection model ala TuneSat.

So if I was the CEO of Tunesat I would be looking at that as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

And the strategy is working just peachy - I doubt the multiple accounts worry them at all as it is pressure on the PROs

It is probably why they don't allow Tunesat detections as evidence.

It will still be obscure as to how one detection is worth x times another detection for the same show on the same network etc.

but losing the cue sheets and "surveys" will open things up to full transparency of what was used and when at least.

Then the only murky part will be what you get paid.

I agree. The whole PRO system is a mess and a throwback a century. Today's technology can do much better though you can see it's not perfect. AFAIK, Tunesat has tried to sell their technology to the PROs and they didn't want it for whatever reason. (Not sure of this!). I've heard that the PROs are working on detection technology. One issue would be that fingerprinting technology can only identify audio, not who the actual publisher is. Now that our industry has millions of tracks in multiple re-title libraries, I'm not sure how that would work.

Casey

[irthlingz]

From TOS, Registration and Security:
You are permitted to establish one account and to access your account by means of an Internet connection (which we do not provide).

Why, there it is! Thanks, Casey!

[cosmicdolphin]

From TOS, Registration and Security:
You are permitted to establish one account and to access your account by means of an Internet connection (which we do not provide).

Oh I see..it says " You "..but I am " Me "..not " You "..so " Your " rules dont' apply to " Me "

And actually It doesn't say " only " one account. It says "one"..so I can estblish one, and then a 2nd , 3rd , 4th "one" and so on...it would never stand up in court.

AFAIK, Tunesat has tried to sell their technology to the PROs and they didn't want it for whatever reason. (Not sure of this!). I've heard that the PROs are working on detection technology. One issue would be that fingerprinting technology can only identify audio, not who the actual publisher is. Now that our industry has millions of tracks in multiple re-title libraries, I'm not sure how that would work.

GEMA accept Tunesat as proof of useage. But they also don't allow re-titling at all so that must make things much easier.

I say give a free 200 track Tunesat Account with every Taxi membership. Doesn't have to have all the bells and whistles like the paid one, it could just be like the free one but bigger....it would add a ton of value to the annual fee and keep folks susbscribing, as if quit Taxi they would lose their special Tunesat Account too.

Mark

[SubRivers]

The re-titling is a red herring as distinction by titles become obsolete in a world of id by the audio itself
It also wouldn't last long enough to be a problem as all music recordings would be exclusive so the model would fall apart overnight


Never
used
the
word
Tu**#-=2

sh*t

I did

[CTWF]

ahh, thought you were BMI, on my last BMI statement they missed about 60%...mostly cbs sports, A&E and pretty much anything animal planet. in fairness, they are pretty accurate with MTV/VH1 and for some reason german tv lol

BMI missed it, or TuneSat?