Amateur film deals

[elser]

I've got a chance to write the score for an amateur/independent film. The goal is to get it into Cannes next year. There's no money upfront but he's prepared to work out some kind of ownership/percentage deal. Just curious, would anyone mind sharing what kind of deals they've made so I'll have a starting point? If you don't want to discuss it here feel free to send me a PM.Thanks for any and all input, Elser

[davewalton]

Dec 31, 2008, 7:03am, fretnoise wrote:I've got a chance to write the score for an amateur/independent film. The goal is to get it into Cannes next year. There's no money upfront but he's prepared to work out some kind of ownership/percentage deal. Just curious, would anyone mind sharing what kind of deals they've made so I'll have a starting point? If you don't want to discuss it here feel free to send me a PM.Thanks for any and all input, ElserHi Elser,One thing about low-budget Indie films is that we (as composers) can't set a "minimum" fee because the budgets that we deal with vary W-I-L-D-L-Y. The budget for the entire film can be in the thousands or hundreds of thousands. It's like minor league baseball... we can do pretty good sometimes but sometimes we have to play an exhibition game or two for the experience. Generally if you do something like some kind of flat fee plus a percentage as "deferred payment", everybody is happy. Don't get too picky... the chances are 95% that is is going to be a project for experience... don't get too hung up with the money aspect for the 5% chance that there might be some money in a deferred payment situation.Something like 5% - 10% of their budget as a flat fee plus 3% - 5% of the profits (all as a deferred payment arrangement) is some kind of starting point... nobody would normally balk at that on either side. On the high side of that, if their budget was $30K to do the entire film... if the film makes a profit they'd owe you $3000 plus 5% of the profit. If the film made a profit of $100K, you'd get $8000 for scoring the film. Not bad for a low-budget Indie film. If it comes true then you can buy some new goodies. If not, you've got a nice film score credit which makes it easier to get the next film score. My experience is that the next guy never asks what I got paid on my previous film. They all assume I got paid and so the more that happens, the more that happens (if that makes any sense). HTH,DavePS - Having an idea of what you might want... ask them to make you an offer. My experience is that they normally value my services higher than I do and they don't want to insult us with a low offer. I've been pleasantly surprised by the offers I've received when putting the ball in their court.

[elser]

Hey Dave, Thanks for the numbers and the advice. I'm really doing it for the experience, hoping to add 'Film Composer' to my 'handyman of music' work profile. So if it doesn't make any money I'm happy with just the experience of it, but if it makes some money I want some. And that's great advice, having the numbers and percentages you've mentioned to go by but let him make an offer first. This isn't his first film so he's got some hands on experience and hopefully an idea of what is decent compensation. Thanks again! Elser

[mazz]

If you can retain the copyright for the music, then you can license it elsewhere and possibly make money from it in another situation (library, etc.). That's the best you can probably get in a situation like this because every film maker wants their film to get in to Cannes but very few actually do. And even if they do, the chances of selling it to a distributor are fairly slim. You're best bet is to think of it as a resume piece and write some good music that fits the film and can hopefully be edited to adapt to other situations.Dave's strategy for negotiating the backend fees and his numbers are right on!My experience with the film I scored this year was: I threw out a figure based on 5% of the entire budget of the film and they came back and said it was too low! So my next approach was to say "well, a score of this magnitude would normally cost XX,XXX.XX which I know is out of your budget so what were you thinking?". The figure they came back with was 1/3 of what I quoted but was exactly the figure that I figured I could get based on their budget so I agreed. It worked out well for all of us. Of course, this was a fee that they paid me, not a fee based on any projected profits but I just like telling the story! Good luck. Scoring films is fun and it's hard work too. Listen to the director and try to understand their dramatic and emotional language. Your job is to translate that in to music, a language they don't usually speak. It's not about the music, it's about the film and the story. Repeat after me: It's not about the music, it's about the film and the story. It's not about the music, it's about the film and the story. It's not about the music, it's about the film and the story. It's not about the music, it's about the film and the story. It's not about the music, it's about the film and the story. It's not about the music, it's about the film and the story. Cheers!!Mazz

[elser]

O.K., O.K., I got it! It's not about the film, it's about the music! Er...no, wait a minute Actually he wants to start with an orchestral arrangement of House of the Rising Sun, so I'll copyright the arrangement, I doubt he's even considered the legal side of copyrighting an arrangement. But I think that music will definitely have other uses. I've been a student of film scoring to some extent and have written some auditions and exercises so it's not completely foreign. I love stories, books and movies, and consider scoring a way of telling stories with music, which is really a part of the classical tradition IMHO.Thanks for the info on your particular deal Mazz, I'm itching to hear as many different scenarios as I can. I'm going into it openly and not pretending to have any experience in the technical and business side, but at the same time I do think I have a pretty good handle on the role of music in a film and the necessary attitude and musical skills to get it done.Here's a whole stream a thankyous flying in your direction Elser

[mazz]

I think you'll do fine. I repeated the film/music thing because I have to remind myself about that too!! Film scoring is for sure a completely different process than writing a piece of "pure" music, as you know.Every deal is a little different so it will be interesting to hear how yours works out as well!Happy New Year!!Mazz

[elser]

Hey, Happy New Year to you! and to all my friends here at the way totally cool Taxi discussion forum board blog thing!

[mojobone]

Hmmm....I would have asked for $500 earnest money up front and either 6% of the gross or 3% of the net, and settled for 3% of the gross, cuz according to Hollywood math there's never any net...

[elser]

Jan 3, 2009, 11:09pm, mojobone wrote: Hmmm....I would have asked for $500 earnest money up front and either 6% of the gross or 3% of the net, and settled for 3% of the gross, cuz according to Hollywood math there's never any net... Ouch, that kinda stuff makes my head hurt