An interesting Royalty question...

[paulhb]

About 12 years ago, I won a song contest on a very popular radio station in Dallas. It was to write a theme song for a morning show. The show has been running my music for 11 years now, but I never thought about getting paid royalties, because it was a contest and the prize just being the winner! I know that the station still runs the song every day. I also know that they use it in promos at various times.Is this something that I could collect on? I never signed anything. It would be easy to prove that it's been running. Also, who would pay for it? The radio station?

[bmete]

Hi Paul,Good question to ask your PRO-- ( BMI or ASCAP etc). Or Attorney!Bob

[paulhb]

It's hard to find a good entertainment attorney here in central Illinois. If you need to find a tractor or combine, we gottem!

[ciskokidd]

Oh boy Paul,This is where they may get you in the fine print. I personally think this is disgraceful if they used a contest to get a theme song without giving compensation and sidestepping royalties.Here's the rub, if they can produce a document/agreement that you agreed to grant rights/license simply by submitting to this contest, you may be out of luck. They like to hide this kind of thing in the finest of print and take advantage of people that don't have the knowledge or experience to find it.Of course the best avenue is going to be to contact your PRO and ask them for advice. We are NOT legal experts here and you are best served speaking to someone who is. I wish you the best in this pursuit, as I believe you are owed a substantial sum if indeed they are liable to pay royalties.Best,Cisco

[sgs4u]

Yeah there was a contest put on by Guinness up here in Canada a while back. They were looking for a theme song for the Cdn National Rugby team. I have a perfect anthem song (IMHO) about winning, We Win that I submitted to their contest. I had to email them, after I re-read the rules and prizes, about them becoming the owner of the tune, lock, stock and barrell. I simply told them that I had to withdraw my submission because I wasn't going to be able to adhere to the contest rules, or accepting the prize. The only prize was for a trip for 2 to see the finals game in Europe. That simply wasn't enough reason to hand over a tune that I think is destined for a decent home. Call me irresponsible, but I'm not writing songs to be used without any hope whatsoever of fiduciary return. Sure the tune could've gotten some press, but I wouldn't even have been able to claim the prize, so it was a no-brainer to pull it. The company didn't have a problem with it. Always read the fine print!Quote:Oh boy Paul,This is where they may get you in the fine print. I personally think this is disgraceful if they used a contest to get a theme song without giving compensation and sidestepping royalties.Here's the rub, if they can produce a document/agreement that you agreed to grant rights/license simply by submitting to this contest, you may be out of luck. They like to hide this kind of thing in the finest of print and take advantage of people that don't have the knowledge or experience to find it.Of course the best avenue is going to be to contact your PRO and ask them for advice. We are NOT legal experts here and you are best served speaking to someone who is. I wish you the best in this pursuit, as I believe you are owed a substantial sum if indeed they are liable to pay royalties.Best,Cisco

[hummingbird]

Hi - I agree, you need to check whatever you signed at the time, or what the rules were when you entered the piece. I have pulled back from entering contests as well after reading the fine print. And talk to your PRO.cheersHummin'birdPS - 'success stories' is where Taxi members post about getting deals (not that winning the contest wasn't a success!!). Post your business-realted questions in General Hangout.

[gitarrero]

..this reminds me to the contest of coca cola "mycoke music".in the fineprint it was clearly written that the track of the winner can be used for all and every media in worldwide campaigns without having to pay ANY license or fee.the price was a couple of days in the studio to produce the song... uuuhmm... and who is going to use it...? right, as it's written in the fineprint, mycoke.@paul: I agree with cisco: you need to check out the fineprint of the contest and the exact legal circumstances.

[ncc1701]

I was soooo excited when American Idol announced last season that they were holding a songwriting contest for the winner to release as his/her first single. I had my song all written and recorded, and when they posted the rules I read them carefully. The first set of rules they posted stated that all submissions would become property of 19 Entertainment and that any non-winning songs would be "held" for possible future use.I interpreted that as saying if I submitted my song (which I thought was great) and it didn't win, I wouldn't have any rights to it if I wanted to shop it elsewhere. THAT sounded like a bad deal to me.By the time another local songwriter came to me for help submitting her entry, they had apparently changed the rules because I couldn't find that clause anywhere. So I entered. And didn't win, in case you hadn't figured that out.Anyway, lesson being: FINE PRINT!

[ragani]

Yeah, I read that same fine print for American Idol-- about them owning ALL the rights to the song. And I read those same words for a local song contest for a station program, and I decided I didn't want to win just for the sake of winning. So it's worth re-reading that fine print. I'm going to bet that they probably covered their tails (considering they are a popular radio station and likely know about royalties). But it's worth checking into it-- and in the chance that they did NOT cover their tails... why, that could be a nice little royalty check due to your account! Keep us posted! Raags

[andreh]

It's not uncommon for smaller or non-music-related organizations running a song contest to stipulate that they acquire all rights to the winning song after the contest is over. They're often unfamiliar with how the whole PRO/royalty thing works, and they don't want to have to deal with "all that stuff" or face any surprise restrictions re: their ability to use (or market) the music down the road.Of course, one would hope they have attorneys advising them - but a non-musical-related organization might have a non-music-related attorney who's advising them in their best interest as opposed to what's the "norm" (or even fair) for these types of contests.In any case, losing the rights to your music even if it loses the contest is over the top.I entered such a contest a few years ago that carried these restrictions, but the potential payout was enough to entice me...turned out to be worth it, too! I managed to accidentally skirt the ownership clause by emailing them my song instead of following their online submission procedures that contained the "I have read the rules and regulations" checkbox (and which were only functioning for PC users at the time), but I don't think I'd go back to them for royalties - I knew what the rules were going in.I also entered the American Idol contest, but I don't think I would've if they'd required giving up rights to the song...too much riding on that one! Kelysian, let's hear you AI song!André