another copyright question..

[telaak]

My last 2 records were recorded with producers {that I paid} one session guitarist {I paid} and a handful of friends that are local musicians {unpaid}..I of course copyrighted the songs back when I wrote them..i'll also add that the producers played instruments on the recordings as well..anyway..been trying to get my stuff placed in film/Tv as of late..let's say after I join taxi {this month!} I get a bite on something..Do I need releases from the paid players ?naturally assuming i'd need a release from the unpaid players..and say there's an offer on something {for film/Tv}...how would I break that down...I mean is there a ratio of say how a drummer would get paid as opposed to the writer/guitarist/vocals, then say a bass player ?..would I have to pay the paid players/producers again ?I know there are books on this sort of thing..and I will buy one eventually, but i've been curious about this for a while..everytime I work on a new record I like to bring in other players that I respect..hoping they can help me get to a place I couldn't on my own..{started a new record this week}am I setting myself up for headaches down the road if I have any success ?thanks..johnwww.myspace.com/liteboxtherapy

[gitarrero]

hi there,if you own the recording (have release forms of ALL musicians) and have written the song all by yourself, you don't need to pay any other musicians if the track is used on tv/film.also see my answer here:http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?b ... ers,martin

[telaak]

Quote:hi there,if you own the recording (have release forms of ALL musicians) and have written the song all by yourself, you don't need to pay any other musicians if the track is used on tv/film.also see my answer here:http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?b ... nthanks..I read your answer in that post {before posting this} and was still a bit unclear..is there a standard release form I can d'load somewhere ?also..the one producer I used is pretty successful {hits} and is quite business savvy..is there any reason someone wouldn't want to sign a release unless they're promised some sort of compensation ?and this may seem crazy...but I WANT to pay the unpaid players if I ever make any $...how the hell do I do that fairly ?for instance..i'm currently recording with a session drummer under the deal..if I get paid, you get paid..that's the deal with my current producer/engineer...these guys are lending their talents and their time..I just want to be fair if I ever get a check cut..thanks..johnwww.myspace.com/liteboxtherapylater..john

[gitarrero]

Quote:also..the one producer I used is pretty successful {hits} and is quite business savvy..is there any reason someone wouldn't want to sign a release unless they're promised some sort of compensation ?and this may seem crazy...but I WANT to pay the unpaid players if I ever make any $...how the hell do I do that fairly ?for instance..i'm currently recording with a session drummer under the deal..if I get paid, you get paid..that's the deal with my current producer/engineer...these guys are lending their talents and their time..I just want to be fair if I ever get a check cut.....that's all negotiable - meaning there are no hard & fast rules. if you want to pay them then just make a proposal.I just can repeat what I said before: educating yourself is definitly a good idea - you need to know the market place you want to work in, and you need to do your homework (..besides that your music must fit for the listings / be in the ballpark).cheers,martin

[bmete]

Hi John,I found this page, they seem to have a ton of contractual material.Hope it helps!http://www.musiccontracts.com/Bob

[matto]

Quote:also..the one producer I used is pretty successful {hits} and is quite business savvy..is there any reason someone wouldn't want to sign a release unless they're promised some sort of compensation ?Sure, that's possible...he might want a portion of the income the music generates as a condition for signing a release. This is why it's always better to sort all this out *before* you start a project.That way the release will be signed at the time the services are provided and be part of the agreement between you and the producer and performers.Quote:and this may seem crazy...but I WANT to pay the unpaid players if I ever make any $...how the hell do I do that fairly?for instance..i'm currently recording with a session drummer under the deal..if I get paid, you get paid..that's the deal with my current producer/engineer...these guys are lending their talents and their time..I just want to be fair if I ever get a check cut..The easiest way is to cut them in on a share of future master license fees. When your music is placed in tv shows or movies, a license fee is usually paid to you or a publisher representing you.Half of that license fee is considered the "master license fee" and is for the recording (the other have is considered the "sync license fee" and is for the composition). You'd split the sync fee with your co-writers (if any) and the master fee with your co-performers/producers. Before you think this is gonna make you rich...total license fees for unknown material (writer's plus publisher's share and master plus sync license fees) ranges from zero to a few thousand dollars, typically from $1000 to about $5000. If you pitched your music yourself and got it placed, you'd get all of that and 50% of it would be the Master license fee. If a publisher picked up your songs and got them placed for you, they'd usually take half off the top and you'd get the other half, so 25% of the total would be considered the master fee.Now: figure out how much each of the performers and producers (including yourself) on the recording contributed to that recording percentage wise. There are no set rules for this, obviously, the more tracks somebody contributed and the more "important" those tracks are (lead vocal, a solo) the higher their percentage should be...put that percentage in their release.Next, figure out how much you would've paid them had you paid them upfront. Take 150% of this and put this as a ceiling into the release (xyz will be entitled to 15% of any and all master license fees received by [you] as a result of film and tv placements of the master recording up to a cumulative sum of $___) or something like this...(I'm not a lawyer, this is just for illustration purposes).The reason you give them 150% of what you would've paid upfront is to reward them for working on spec.So this is how you'd do it. Of course, this means everytime you receive a check you have to make an accounting to each performer and producer and send them their respective shares, which can be time consuming and possibly complicated with people moving and such. This is why it's usually easier to pay people upfront and get a release from them at the time of the recording session.IF you have the money to do so...matto

[telaak]

hey..thanks for everyones help..this definitely opens my eyes to some stuff...I appreciate it later..john www.myspace.com/liteboxtherapy

[telaak]

one more thing on this..i'm going to get releases on the record i'm working on now..but i'm thinking that the 2 prior recordings - {14 songs total/5 releases to be signed} - i'll take a wait & see aproach..meaning if I get some interest in a song..i'll get releases then as opposed to being a pain about it now..I live in Buffalo, NY {insert joke here} - regardless of what you may have heard about the area..there's a large music scene with a lot of talented people..I don't want to turn people off with contracts & such when I haven't really had any success..and frankly may not ?anyway..if you have an opinion on what I plan to do..i'd love to hear it..{pro or con} - this all may seem obvious to most of you..but i'm just now getting serious about my music - I know the basic stuff - joined ascap, copyright my stuff, but the rest is still a bit of a mystery...and of course w/no revenue coming from music I can't afford an entertainment lawyer..thanks..johnwww.myspace.com/liteboxtherapy

[Casey H]

Quote:one more thing on this..i'm going to get releases on the record i'm working on now..but i'm thinking that the 2 prior recordings - {14 songs total/5 releases to be signed} - i'll take a wait & see aproach..meaning if I get some interest in a song..i'll get releases then as opposed to being a pain about it now..I live in Buffalo, NY {insert joke here} - regardless of what you may have heard about the area..there's a large music scene with a lot of talented people..I don't want to turn people off with contracts & such when I haven't really had any success..and frankly may not ?anyway..if you have an opinion on what I plan to do..i'd love to hear it..{pro or con} - this all may seem obvious to most of you..but i'm just now getting serious about my music - I know the basic stuff - joined ascap, copyright my stuff, but the rest is still a bit of a mystery...and of course w/no revenue coming from music I can't afford an entertainment lawyer..thanks..johnwww.myspace.com/liteboxtherapyIt is much better to get those releases ASAP before there is any interest. When you pitch your material, you are implying that you have the full right to do so. If you are approached by a music library or film music supervisor about your music, you don't want any issues at that moment in time. If the interested party learns that you don't own your masters free and clear, they could walk away not wanting any hassles. Most industry folks hate it when you submit material that you don't own free and clear.I would go back to the musicians you worked with, ask for signatures on a release, and since this is after the fact, if you think they will balk, offer them percentages as matto suggested above. Your bargaining power with them, after the fact, may be less than if you discussed this upfront before the sessions. I've been working with a demo producer for years now who does most of the work himself but also brings in session vocalists and musicians as needed. He is aware upfront that I will only do the demos is everyone involved is aware of this requirement.BTW, about 6-7 years back, a knowledgeable publisher told me the going (typical) rate was 3% of master license fee per musician. I don't use that figure anymore because with license fees now often in the $500-$1000 range (or less), that's a whopping $15-$30 (seems almost insulting). I think that figure was based on a time when license fees where much larger. So, I don't offer any percentage anymore, unless it is absolutely requested, but prefer to pay the musicians a little more upfront.This is important. I suggest you don't put it off.Good luck!Casey

[telaak]

Quote:Quote:one more thing on this..i'm going to get releases on the record i'm working on now..but i'm thinking that the 2 prior recordings - {14 songs total/5 releases to be signed} - i'll take a wait & see aproach..meaning if I get some interest in a song..i'll get releases then as opposed to being a pain about it now..I live in Buffalo, NY {insert joke here} - regardless of what you may have heard about the area..there's a large music scene with a lot of talented people..I don't want to turn people off with contracts & such when I haven't really had any success..and frankly may not ?anyway..if you have an opinion on what I plan to do..i'd love to hear it..{pro or con} - this all may seem obvious to most of you..but i'm just now getting serious about my music - I know the basic stuff - joined ascap, copyright my stuff, but the rest is still a bit of a mystery...and of course w/no revenue coming from music I can't afford an entertainment lawyer..thanks..johnwww.myspace.com/liteboxtherapyIt is much better to get those releases ASAP before there is any interest. When you pitch your material, you are implying that you have the full right to do so. If you are approached by a music library or film music supervisor about your music, you don't want any issues at that moment in time. If the interested party learns that you don't own your masters free and clear, they could walk away not wanting any hassles. Most industry folks hate it when you submit material that you don't own free and clear.I would go back to the musicians you worked with, ask for signatures on a release, and since this is after the fact, if you think they will balk, offer them percentages as matto suggested above. Your bargaining power with them, after the fact, may be less than if you discussed this upfront before the sessions. I've been working with a demo producer for years now who does most of the work himself but also brings in session vocalists and musicians as needed. He is aware upfront that I will only do the demos is everyone involved is aware of this requirement.BTW, about 6-7 years back, a knowledgeable publisher told me the going (typical) rate was 3% of master license fee per musician. I don't use that figure anymore because with license fees now often in the $500-$1000 range (or less), that's a whopping $15-$30 (seems almost insulting). I think that figure was based on a time when license fees where much larger. So, I don't offer any percentage anymore, unless it is absolutely requested, but prefer to pay the musicians a little more upfront.This is important. I suggest you don't put it off.Good luck!Casey thanks Casey..i'm contacting everyone this week..hopefully I won't have any problems..later..john