Any tips for commercial edits?

[coolhouse912]

One of the libraries I write for is requiring 60,30, & 15 second edits. I've been around a while, but I'm new to this.

It's terribly time consuming.

I know that time & experience will eventually speed things up but, in the mean time, I was wondering if anybody might be able to share insight into their workflow.

Somebody help a brotha' out.

Thanks,
Mike

[Len911]

I'm not experience either, it sounds like finding edit points and using fades and time stretching to develop the edits??

[coolhouse912]

It gets pretty complicated Len.

I'm constantly switching between musical (edits) & time (placement) grids. You have to be faded out exactly .5 sec before the end of the file which actually provides a bit of wiggle room.

The difficulty lies in finding a starting & stopping point that fits in the time required & still makes musical sense.

It can be done okay but it usually takes me an entire evening to create 3 usable edited cues. Too long.

[andygabrys]

sorry its a bear Mike.

I would say:

1) use two timelines displayed simultaneously - Logic allows bars / beats and SMPTE to display simultaneously, and when holding the mouse over most things and dragging automation it will display a help tag that shows location in bars / beats and SMPTE (or whatever you choose for the secondary ruler). With this multi-display I never have to switch to Time grid from the musical grid. If your DAW won't cooperate (Cubase right?) then hopefully at least you can assign a hot key command to switch between musical grid and time grid.

2) keep messing with your last hit / fade to massage length of the track. If you have a typical 5-8 second stinger on the end, you have a lot of flexibility to fade much more quickly and keep the action going until closer to the end of the cue.

3) every DAW has a slightly different workflow, but Logics implementation of the cycle region is flexible for doing edits

4) keep an open mind about what makes "musical sense". after you have listen to your cue 30,000 times when working on it you might think a bar of 3/4 sounds like junk or maybe cutting off the 3rd and 4th bars of the intro doesn't keep the same chord progression and therefore its terrible / sucks. Keep in mind to a fresh listen all these things might totally work. The way I see it, a cut down is a time saver for an editor, but if they desperately want to use your cue and hate your 30, they might make their own, or they might grab your stinger and change the end. So many options depending on how much of a hurry they are in.

5) listen to some cut downs that are prepared by the actual library staff - not the composers. It might be illuminating to hear what they did. PM me for an example.

HTH

[cassmcentee]

+1 for Andy!

The first thing I do so that I'm not messing with the Original mix is "SAVE AS"
Song 60
Song 30
etc....
That way I feel free to chop it up without any fear of messing up the Original
Then find the best endings and work backwards to the time required.

Stinger examples at the end of this one: https://soundcloud.com/robert-cass-mcen ... -n-stinger

[coolhouse912]

Andy: I'll definitely PM you tonight after work.

Cass: Safety first absolutely! Cubase has a "duplicate selected tracks" function that allows me to make instantaneous copies of the 2 mix to edit. That's my safeguard.


TAXI peeps are the best! Thanks guys!

[guscave]

2) keep messing with your last hit / fade to massage length of the track. If you have a typical 5-8 second stinger on the end, you have a lot of flexibility to fade much more quickly and keep the action going until closer to the end of the cue.

HTH

+1 with starting from the end and working your way backwards. Ex: If I'm doing a 30 second edit, I'll usually get the last hit and paste it on another track at about the 25 seconds timeline. I'll then get the chorus and paste it in front of that last hit and work with it until I get the full 30 seconds of time I need. I do the same with 10 or 5 second edits.

This can become a lot easier to do if your song starts at the chorus. In those cases all you do is copy your song onto another track and split it at about 20 seconds, then paste the final hit. That's assuming it all sounds natural.

Also note that I always work on edits using the final stereo file, not the project file.

[andygabrys]

timeline edits.jpg (209.7 KiB) Viewed 2634 times

this thread has got legs!

interesting to hear how everybody does it.

I always work on the full session, never the 2 mix. Since I always buss to reverbs and delays instead of putting them on the individual tracks I don't commit all tracks to audio. Its just wasted time for the way I do things. I want to be able to massage things if tails don't sound right.

I never save as a new project file. I always work in the main session. When I am done with a cue, its got one project file that I can open and do anything I need to the session. Usually if I ever have to go back in its to make stems for a commercial placement.

Looking at my session, I have the Full version starting first in the timeline.
I copy that down the timeline and leave a few bars between the Full and what will become the 60.
I hack and slash the 60 into shape.
I copy the 60 down the timeline again leaving a few bars between it and the next which will become the 30.
I hack and slash the 30 - usually by this time any edit points have been hacked out and its 30 sec of "meat"
Same deal for a 15 or a bumper
Then the last thing is the Sting - which I leave with a long fade as the main version.

A lot of this workflow I developed specifically because there are some simple key commands in Logic that do a lot of this almost automatically (its still got other warts though of course )

I can do nearly the same thing in Pro Tools but the specific steps are slightly different - like I use Selection Markers to identify bounce regions.

So Left to Right:

Full, 60, 30, 15, Sting.

see above. Shows automation for fades on master track.

[Russell Landwehr]

+1 on having all versions in the same project time line like what Andy said. as I was reading down through the replies to your post, that was the main thing I wanted to bring up.

BTW I learned it from Andy.

Russell

[coolhouse912]

I learned it from Andy is the most repeated statement on these forums.