at which PRO is a library re-title registered

[deantaylor]

Say that I sign a song to a music library that re-titles.1. Does the library register the re-title with MY PRO? Or with THEIR PRO .. or with BOTH PROs .. or .... something else?2. When is the registration of the re-title normally done .. when the song is signed .. when the song gets its first placement .. or ...?Thanks,Dean

[suzdoyle]

Good questions. I asked ASCAP about this a while back in regards to a song of mine that was re-titled by a European publisher. They told me I did NOT need to register the retitled song with ASCAP (in addition to the original titled song), because any royalties would come in under the names of the writer (composer/ performers).Hope this helps.Suz

[deantaylor]

Suz, thanks for trying to help, but I know that I do not have to register the re-title. The library registers the re-title. That I am 'sure' of ... I think. lol What I am asking is ... WHERE does the library register the re-title ... with MY PRO or THEIR PRO .. or both .. or something else. (I want to try and check up on the registration, make sure it is there .. done correctly .. etc.)DeanPS I rephrased my initial post .. maybe it was not clear enough.

[guscave]

Hi Dean,My experience has been that they re-title before they pitch the song. If your with BMI and they're with ASCAP, they'll register it with both. If both the writer and publisher are under the same PRO, then they'll only register it once.

[deantaylor]

Thanks Gus,That is how I assumed it would work. I figured they have to register it with MY PRO so that I can collect the writer's share and they have to register with THEIR PRO, so they can collect the publisher's share. Is my reasoning correct?What if I have a co-writer who is PRS? In this case, I assume the library would have to register it in 3 places, if all our PROs are different, for example ... BMI (their PRO), ASCAP (my PRO), PRS (my co-writers PRO)? True?DeanPS Gus your webpage tacked on the bottom of your posts may be messed up .. not clickable.

[matto]

Mar 9, 2009, 6:58am, deantaylor wrote:Thanks Gus,That is how I assumed it would work. I figured they have to register it with MY PRO so that I can collect the writer's share and they have to register with THEIR PRO, so they can collect the publisher's share. Is my reasoning correct?What if I have a co-writer who is PRS? In this case, I assume the library would have to register it in 3 places, if all our PROs are different, for example ... BMI (their PRO), ASCAP (my PRO), PRS (my co-writers PRO)? True?DeanPS Gus your webpage tacked on the bottom of your posts may be messed up .. not clickable.I don't know of any library that doesn't have at least an ASCAP and BMI publishing company (many have SESAC also). If you are an ASCAP writer they will assign the song to their ASCAP publisher and register it with ASCAP, vice versa if you are BMI.If you have a PRS co-writer and the library is US based, they will register it as above. The PRS writer can register the song with the PRS if they so choose (and I would recommend this), but they normally don't have to in order to get paid (assuming they are correctly listed as a PRS writer on all cue sheets). If they are going to register the song with the PRS, it's important to ask the library how to do this (exact name of publishing company/ies etc).And this is IMPORTANT, the retitle must be registered as a new work NOT as an alternate title added to the original song's registration.If the library is UK based, all of the above applies in reverse.As to when the song is registered, with non-exclusive re-title agreements it's fairly common for a publisher to wait with registering a song until they have secured a placement, particularly if there is a reversion/contract termination clause, as they might otherwise register titles that never generate any income, which is really just a waste of time and clogs up the PRO's database with unnecessary works.HTH,matto

[deantaylor]

Yep, that helps a whole lot Matto. Really appreciate you and Gus. You guys have a lot of experience with this. I am just starting.I just signed songs (different songs) to 2 different non-exclusive libraries who re-title. One is a big established one ... US based. The other is based in Austria .. newer, but somewhat established. The Austrian library told us this .... All tracks will be renamed and registered with BMI and/or ASCAP ... but my co-writer is PRS, so he will appreciate your advice.A semi-related follow-up question. I also have a co-write signed to a library that does not re-title, so we registered the song ourselves. We were a bit confused, because of differences in the way PRS and ASCAP work, but here is how we registered it with each PRO:ASCAP ... me25% my publishing company25% my co-writer's PRS writer name ... this is my co-writer's publishing share ............................... PRS doesn't have 'publisher' constraints like ASCAP25% my ASCAP writer name25% my co-writer's PRS writer namePRS .. 50% my ASCAP writer name50% my co-writer's PRS writer nameAre these registrations correct? Seems like they should probably get the job done. I thought he should probably register at PRS with my 50% split just like I had to split it up at ASCAP, so each registration matched exactly, but maybe it doesn't matter.Dean

[matto]

Mar 9, 2009, 10:42am, deantaylor wrote:A semi-related follow-up question. I also have a co-write signed to a library that does not re-title, so we registered the song ourselves. We were a bit confused, because of differences in the way PRS and ASCAP work, but here is how we registered it with each PRO:ASCAP ... me25% my publishing company25% my co-writer's PRS writer name ... this is my co-writer's publishing share ............................... PRS doesn't have 'publisher' constraints like ASCAP25% my ASCAP writer name25% my co-writer's PRS writer namePRS .. 50% my ASCAP writer name50% my co-writer's PRS writer nameAre these registrations correct? Seems like they should probably get the job done. I thought he should probably register at PRS with my 50% split just like I had to split it up at ASCAP, so each registration matched exactly, but maybe it doesn't matter.DeanI guess my first question is why did you register it and not let the publisher do it? Or did the publisher tell you to register it? Does the publisher not take any publishing?

[deantaylor]

Mar 9, 2009, 11:58am, matto wrote:Mar 9, 2009, 10:42am, deantaylor wrote:A semi-related follow-up question. I also have a co-write signed to a library that does not re-title, so we registered the song ourselves. We were a bit confused, because of differences in the way PRS and ASCAP work, but here is how we registered it with each PRO:ASCAP ... me25% my publishing company25% my co-writer's PRS writer name ... this is my co-writer's publishing share ............................... PRS doesn't have 'publisher' constraints like ASCAP25% my ASCAP writer name25% my co-writer's PRS writer namePRS .. 50% my ASCAP writer name50% my co-writer's PRS writer nameAre these registrations correct? Seems like they should probably get the job done. I thought he should probably register at PRS with my 50% split just like I had to split it up at ASCAP, so each registration matched exactly, but maybe it doesn't matter.DeanI guess my first question is why did you register it and not let the publisher do it? Or did the publisher tell you to register it? Does the publisher not take any publishing?The library/publisher does not take ANY of publisher's share, they only take a percentage of the licensing fee. We keep 100% of ALL perf royalties paid thru the PROs, therefore we must register it ourselves.

[matto]

In that case I think the registration is correct (I'm not and ASCAP affilate but from what I know this looks right).I didn't realize you were signed to "Mother Theresa Publishing" . Oh wait, no company names...