Back-end royalties only (no sync fee)?

[jaysoul]

Hi guys,

Just got email from a indie publisher regarding a forwarded song. How common is it for music being placed in tv shows in exchange for back-end royalties only, no sync fee?

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks
Jay

[Russell Landwehr]

Heya Jay.

Does this thread and the one it references help you out?

http://forums.taxi.com/topic107297.html


Russell

[Casey H]

Hi guys,

Just got email from a indie publisher regarding a forwarded song. How common is it for music being placed in tv shows in exchange for back-end royalties only, no sync fee?

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks
Jay

It's VERY common. Unfortunately, sync fees have been dwindling over the past decade and back-end only happens a lot. The market is heavily saturated with good music so it's supply and demand. Some libraries due blanket deals with production companies whereby the company pays one fee to the library for access to the entire catalog and many of those libraries do not share those fees with composers.

There are still higher end placements that pay sync fees.

Fortunately, if you get a placement on a show that re-runs a lot on certain channels, the back-end can add up. It varies all over the board by which channel, length of music, time of day, number of plays, voodoo formulas , etc.

HTH
Casey

[jaysoul]

Thanks Russel and Casey! Your input and linked topics are both very helpful.

Hm. Ok, i see. This raises 2 more questions. Hope you bear with me.

1. In this kind of deal does the library/publisher still also take the publishing on that song? And if so, will it retitle the song to do so?

2. Devil's advocate: wouldn't this trend also be a great chance for not so trustworthy publishers/libraries to just say to a composer there's no sync fee, while in reality the network/music super does in fact pay a license fee to the publisher/library?

Thanks
Jay

[Casey H]

Thanks Russel and Casey! Your input and linked topics are both very helpful.

Hm. Ok, i see. This raises 2 more questions. Hope you bear with me.

1. In this kind of deal does the library/publisher still also take the publishing on that song? And if so, will it retitle the song to do so?

2. Devil's advocate: wouldn't this trend also be a great chance for not so trustworthy publishers/libraries to just say to a composer there's no sync fee, while in reality the network/music super does in fact pay a license fee to the publisher/library?

Thanks
Jay

(1) It depends. Most of the time, the library takes the publisher's share of PRO income. Whether they re-title it will depend on whether the deal is exclusive or non-exclusive and other factors. On non-exclusive deals, they need to re-title in order to separate income derived from THEIR placement from others. On exclusive deals they MAY re-title, so their placements can be differentiated from non-film/TV ones such as artist radio play and direct to sup deals (if they allow those), etc. There are many different types of deals, so YMMV.

(2) The overwhelming majority of publishers and libraries I've seen (actually probably ALL I've seen) will share sync fees with composers when they are sync fees for INDIVIDUAL licenses as opposed to blanket deals. Personally, I haven't encountered non-trustworthy ones yet and therefore don't give it much thought. (Not that there aren't any bad apples in the world-- just not that many). Taxi vets their clients well and will stop working with any that have legitimate complaints against them.

Casey

[ChipD]

So do some exclusive library deals still allow the writer to market their music as an artist (e.g., CD sales, radio airplay, etc.)?

[Casey H]

So do some exclusive library deals still allow the writer to market their music as an artist (e.g., CD sales, radio airplay, etc.)?

Yes, many do. Some even allow direct to supervisor pitches, just not to other libraries.

Casey

[jaysoul]

(1) It depends. Most of the time, the library takes the publisher's share of PRO income. Whether they re-title it will depend on whether the deal is exclusive or non-exclusive and other factors. On non-exclusive deals, they need to re-title in order to separate income derived from THEIR placement from others. On exclusive deals they MAY re-title, so their placements can be differentiated from non-film/TV ones such as artist radio play and direct to sup deals (if they allow those), etc. There are many different types of deals, so YMMV.

(2) The overwhelming majority of publishers and libraries I've seen (actually probably ALL I've seen) will share sync fees with composers when they are sync fees for INDIVIDUAL licenses as opposed to blanket deals. Personally, I haven't encountered non-trustworthy ones yet and therefore don't give it much thought. (Not that there aren't any bad apples in the world-- just not that many). Taxi vets their clients well and will stop working with any that have legitimate complaints against them.

Casey

Thanks so much for your detailed and inisghtful replies Casey! I'm learning a lot.
First point: clear.
Second one: you're right Taxi works with trusted parties and I'm glad your faith in the music industry is still rock solid! I've had some different experiences with a publisher.
But more in general, is there any way ever a composer can be sure that a license fee is (not) being paid by a library/publisher's client? 100% trust or do you ever get to see a copy of the license transaction?

Have a good one
Jay

[Casey H]

But more in general, is there any way ever a composer can be sure that a license fee is (not) being paid by a library/publisher's client? 100% trust or do you ever get to see a copy of the license transaction?

When I HAVE received a sync fee (the very few times), I personally have never gone by anything other than the library's word as to the amount. I never saw any documentation from the end user as to the amount paid and never asked. I won't go through life assuming people are dishonest unless I have strong reason to believe that is the case.

And on the times (most of my placements) where I received no sync fee, nope... no documentation, never asked.

Others who have received a lot of sync fees can certainly chime in with their experience. Mine is limited on that.

Keep in mind that the majority of *MY* placements (this may be true for others) are via library blanket deals with end users. The library doesn't deny that they receive a blanket fee, they just state that they don't share these blanket fees with composers. My take is that's how their business model works and allows them to stay in business.

One thing to do is to build solid, trusting relationships with fellow songwriters and composers here on the forum and at the Road Rally. That makes it much easier to discuss things, compare experiences, etc.

Best,
Casey

[ChipD]

Thanks, Casey!