Beatles Influenced Return - Disappointed. Thoughts?

[rnrmachine]

Hey Casey,

I can understand where the screener is coming from. The lyrics do seem a bit too generic. These lyrics do compare to some Beatles songs imho. BUT the listing said influenced, so even if they used similar lyrics as these, they still want a fresh approach. Or at least lyrics that are better than an average songwriter would write. You need to find better ways to say these things. Don't get me wrong, The song is an excellent song. Everything about it is really good. Had you wrote it 40-50 years ago, it would be a hit as is imho. We as writers have to find the new way to say the same old thing... I wish I had a dollar... heck, even a nickel for every time someone used the words " I love you" or "I can't go on" or "I need You" in a song. LOL Seriously, find a new way to say I love you... and you will have a hit song!

I know you said...

I allowed the lyrics to be fairly cliché and trite because many Beatles songs were

But they weren't cliche and trite back then. Everything about the Beatles was new even if very simple. Also, the Beatles continue on because the love for them became a bond between the generations. Daddy loves the Beatles and so do I... Seriously, a lot of their music is very child like. So now... we find a market out there for people that are influenced by the Beatles, but not just churning clones out. People don't want, neither did that listing, the same lyrics thrown at them over and over. I know I don't and I am quite sure, if I wrote this and you read it/listened to it... you'd say the same thing to me that I am saying to you. As a matter of fact, I recall a song I posted that you had a few opinions on it's simplicity and "cliche" factor and I was thankful for your input, but you did tell me that I should trash it and move on. . It's funny how hard it is to see it when it's us... and so obvious when it's someone else.... very odd. Sorry, done with the moment philosophical self reflection... lol

Your lyrics are...

Though you're in my arms today,
your eyes are far away.
Can you tell me nothings wrong. ( I like the imagery here. It's quite good, but the lyrics are a bit "jeans and a T-shirt". I do not like the lyric "Can..." here. It's so wrong imho.)

Never was this way before
with you I always felt so sure
without your love I can't go on... (this has no imagery and it's more album filler than hit song material and the last line... millions across the planet, if not billions, have thought the exact line at least once in their lives. You have to find a new way to say it even if you were trying to imitate the Beatles, which ya shouldn't have been... only influenced by...)

What if I should ask you?
Am I still in your heart?
Don't you know I need you
Am I still in your heart?
Cause when we're together
I feel so alone... oh please tell me
Am I still in your heart?

Sorry but the next verse is pretty bad in the "over used" department. So I am just gonna take an outside point of view and try to help guide ya in a better direction. Something I already know you are capable of. Btw, If I fail to help I apologize, but it won't be for lack of effort. So even if ya totally disagree with me and give me an F for content... please give me an A for effort. Or at least a B+ hehe

The first 2 lines, right away, I had a picture in my head, so with those, you are golden there imho . The following line though... "can you tell me nothing's wrong"... it's just poor coming off the imagery. It's a let down right out of the gate after a decent opening line. "Yet you tell me nothings wrong" would work much better imho. Just changing the Can you..." to "Yet you... continues the imagery in a good way where "Can you..." sort of ruins it.

The 2nd verse/next 3 lines could be changed to something that eludes to how strong you used to feel and be with her. Not directly states it. Stating it is just that, a statement. Try to tell it with a fake memory, a story if no real one exists. One that gives the listener a picture of your strength from "those days" when you felt so sure of her love, or empowered by her love, etc... OR perhaps just continue the image from the first 3 lines. I think this would work better...

Though you're in my arms today,
your eyes are far away.
Yet you tell me nothing's wrong. (Yet, keeps the picture in my head fine AND it even let's us know, you asked her, what's wrong? You say a lot just changing that one word. See that? I hope you do, if you don't then you need to think about what I am saying until you understand or I can't help you.)

I tire of this game we play
You never used to look away
I'm afraid your love has gone. (maybe too much on the love is gone part, but it's a direction, an idea for ya to mull over.)

The chorus... you ask if you should ask. It's odd at best. I think you should just go with the original image and change it to something that either demands an answer to the question, "Am I still in your heart?" OR perhaps, have that 1st line get you looking into her eyes... or you get her attention, THEN ask the question...

Anyway, the direction I see in my head from your original image is... She is in your arms... still... from the listener point of view unless you change that... which you haven't. So perhaps... you pull her in closer and whisper in her ear?.. Am I still in your heart? So maybe the lyrics could go like this,..

I pull you closer,
Am I still in your heart?
Softly I whisper, (or Softly I ask you, or Gently I caress you. The last one would change the approach imho so other lines would have to change to reflect that.)
Am I still in your heart?
Though even now I'm with you, (imho, this is a much better way of saying the same thing you said AND it keeps the imagery alive from the first 2 lines.)
I feel so alone.
Do I need to ask you?
Am I still in your heart?

Anyway Casey, you are a decent writer and I think you will get this up to par... so if there is a next time for this song they will be begging ya to let em use it.

I hope I helped and got ya thinking, and please, at least appreciate the effort I put out here. If I didn't care, it would have been easy to just move on to something else and not take the time to give you a 100% no nonsense honest opinion... and try to help.

AT least I'm not telling you to trash this like ya did mine a while back... lol. And my song had a coherent story one could follow. I do disagree with ya about trashing it BUT I got your point on it being too simple. I disagree with trashing it because I had too many tell me they love it... even if it was all women/mothers and only 1 man that his daughter had JUST asked him that right before he heard the song. HAHA He called me up bawling his eyes out. I felt so bad.

So if ya disagree with me on anything or everything that is cool, I'd rather if I was helpful like you have been for me. So I hope to return the favor.

Good Luck!!

Rob

[Casey H]

Hey Rob
I would NEVER write lyrics like that for a current song or probably anything beyond 60's style. I'm very aware how trite and cliche they are. If this were for a different type of listing, I'd rip them to shreds myself.

Because it was for a Beatles influenced listing, I (maybe mistakenly) allowed them to go that way. It reminded me a little of "And I Love Her" which certainly is no literary masterpiece as far as lyrics.

One fault with this song that's plagued it is it's hard to pin down exactly WHICH Beatles period it reflects. Personally, I heard it as much earlier than Rubber Soul and went for more simplistic lyrics. If fact, I changed the original instrumental break to be more acoustic a la "And I Love Her". Some good input on this thread that something more Rubber Soul like e-piano might have worked well. (I have a call in to George Martin)...

Thanks!
Casey

[sedge]

One fault with this song that's plagued it is it's hard to pin down exactly WHICH Beatles period it reflects. Personally, I heard it as much earlier than Rubber Soul and went for more simplistic lyrics.

Glad Im in the clear : )

As trying to say, I don't think it is the simplicity of the lyrics here at 'fault' (why the return)

It is (for me anyways) the sentiment of the lyrics, the way they are done here is not something I hear in any beatles songs, in any era

They jus wouldn't bring them selves down to almost beg for the love in this way.

Looking at the lyrics for "And I love her" like you say - simple cliche maybe, but there is no part where the lyrics are in the vein you have here (essentially sad, lost love, please come back ). Think more sentiment than the actual words used would be the best place to look here.

You just wouldn't get a Beatle singing a song begging for a love to come back, wouldn't get past the rehearsal room with these lads.

eg we might say/feel like "I'm not able to get along without you" - Beatles mighta said "We got on great together" - both simple, maybe cliche, but the later is Beatles style - get my drift?

To me the screener should have just said simply this. That was the underlining reason for the return based on lyrics, bet you a $5

: ) top song btw, im too melody first then lyrics, dived in to the lyrics here as the reason not forwarded.

hth!

[Casey H]

Hey Sedge
I disagree... The Beatles wrote songs with the sentiment expressed in mine... Look at "The Night Before". They also covered "Act Naturally".... Don't forget "I'm A Loser", LOL!!

The point is well taken that in song writing you do have to be careful not to make the character in the song too needy. That's a mistake I've made in a number of my songs. I think if this sentiment were in a more current song and not a Beatles knock-off, your point would be more relevant in THIS case.

I really think the screener wanted lyrics to be more in line with the Beatles time period reflected in the music. If the music sounded like a 1964 Beatles tune, it probably wouldn't have mattered so much. (That's MHO based what what *I* read into this screening).

Thanks for the input! Always appreciated!
Casey

[sedge]

I disagree... The Beatles wrote songs with the sentiment expressed in mine... Look at "The Night Before". They also covered "Act Naturally".... Don't forget "I'm A Loser", LOL!!

We could bat and ball this one for sure!

say take "The Night Before", nowhere do we get the feeling his life/happiness depends on him 'loving her like the night before'

The line

"Treat me like you did the night before" , see how it becomes much more desperate if we make it - "Please treat me like you did the night before"

AND what comes before and after the line etc, all adding to overall sentiment.

It's subtle, I think you song just pushed a tad too far the other way to needy.

Myself probally exaggerating it about your song here to explain better in type

[Casey H]

Sedge
All good points and some lyric tweaks to go less needy would be an improvement, no doubt.

I don't think that is what made the difference HERE as far as forward vs. return-- that's all I'm saying. I really think the screener just found the lyrics too simplistic and cliche as a whole for the music.

Casey

[Kelil]

Look. I dont know what drugs screener 79 was on but the listing did say influenced by the beatles. It didnt say complete rip-offs and I'll be honest and say thats how I read it and that there are a few songs I heard that got forwarded that were complete rip offs of the beatles rather than havings it's touches of influences here and there. So whats the listing looking for? Beatles influenced songs? or tribute acts? Because most ( not all ) of what I heard getting forwarded sounded like tribute acts more than anything.

And with what I got heard getting forwarded it's upsetting your track didnt.

Stephen

[Casey H]

Now, now... Be nice, Kelil...

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose (and sometimes the blues get a hold of you)... I'm disappointed but to stay in this game, you have to shrug it off and move on. As far as the screener and what the listing party actually wanted, we don't know what we don't know.

As I mentioned, I wouldn't have re-worked the song if not for the listing and now I have a good one for music library opps both inside and outside of Taxi. And who knows? Maybe I will tweak the lyrics down the road given what the screener said and some of the conversation here?

Casey

[treesbygb]

Just latched on to this discussion which I've found very interesting. Sorry it stems from a return but I've enjoyed reading the lyrical analysis and comparisons as well as the reviewers comments and resulting opinions. So first off, thanks Casey for posting and keeping the song critiques alive.

For my part, I felt it had all the right ingredients, I especially liked the harmonies on the chorus, lyrically I can see both arguments, it was well produced and had a strong Beatles feel. Yet, despite all that it just seemed to lack something, it just didn't really engage me. It's hard to define but I think the vocal performance didn't feel convincing. This is definitely a feeling rather than anything concrete that I can quantify.

Sorry, this is probably not that helpful, but there it is!

I'll duck now!!

Thanks again for posting and sharing
(P.S. I will post one of my returns one day, but so far I agree with the screeners comments!)

[Casey H]

Just latched on to this discussion which I've found very interesting. Sorry it stems from a return but I've enjoyed reading the lyrical analysis and comparisons as well as the reviewers comments and resulting opinions. So first off, thanks Casey for posting and keeping the song critiques alive.

For my part, I felt it had all the right ingredients, I especially liked the harmonies on the chorus, lyrically I can see both arguments, it was well produced and had a strong Beatles feel. Yet, despite all that it just seemed to lack something, it just didn't really engage me. It's hard to define but I think the vocal performance didn't feel convincing. This is definitely a feeling rather than anything concrete that I can quantify.

Sorry, this is probably not that helpful, but there it is!

I'll duck now!!

Thanks again for posting and sharing
(P.S. I will post one of my returns one day, but so far I agree with the screeners comments!)

Hey Trees.... No need to duck! Appreciate the listen and feedback!

To be honest, I was a touch unsure about the vocal but the screener seemed to be very positive about it (Rated it "8") and focused on the lyrics as the issue. If the reason for return was the vocal, I would have been less surprised. Hopefully, I’ll get a few more screener opinions and see what consensus there is on the vocal.

If the worst thing in the world is I wrote a really good song and need to re-cut the vocal… No worries at all!

Best,
Casey