Best Monitors for a

[benjet]

Hello!

I'm not satisfied with the 7-8 ratings I get on engineering, so I'm investing in a local grammy winning engineer to do some work on at least one of our songs (he's expensive!) and he's agreed as part of the deal that I can sit in on the mixing stage and he will share what he is doing. He offered that even though my room sets up nice, it needs a bit more treatment, and that my current 003 and KRK Rokit's need upgrading. He is reluctant to make specific recommendations on gear, as that has burned him in the past. He will however, disqualify gear he feels is not up to par.

With new converter research out of the way, the other piece of equipment I have been researching for upgrade are my monitors. I am looking at this as a long term investment, rather than an expense (resale value is an important aspect that I consider).

I've searched and seen some of the recommendations in my price range (here and other forums) - DynAudio, Adams, Genelec, and I've been reading on another forum about the Event Opal. I've heard all of these but the Opal's and definitely can hear more clarity. However, I don't know how that actually translates to a song mixed down to mp3 - as that is the format I seem to be working in except for a very few local CD projects.

Keep in mind that I will likely be using these for at least 5 years if not longer, and that after depreciation I expect the true cost on these to be in the $10-20 per month range.

I wonder if any of you with experience can let me know the difference between a mix you do with monitors in the class mentioned above (that are in the $3K range), and for example a mix you have done with something in the class of the Yamaha NS10 - which is on E-Bay right now for $650 ...

Thanks!

Tony

[kclements]

I think it is easy to focus on purchasing new monitors to correct mixing problems. I know that is what I did a couple of years ago, going from a set of cheap Roland monitors to my Adam A5's - expecting my mixes to immediately improve. To some degree, my mixes did improve by just replacing my monitors. But not in the way I had hoped. It wasn't the magic bullet I had dreamed it would be.

What really makes a difference is learning the new monitors and my room. I think if you put the most expensive monitors in a crappy room - you will still get a crappy mix. I am still working on treating my room, but I make sure to listen to my mixes on every system in the house (from the crappy clock radio, to my tv and home stereo...) and my car. Then you can learn if you room/monitors hype the low end at 55 Htz, or there is a dip at 11 kHtz...

So, I would really recommend getting a decent set of monitors ( I really like my A5's) and then treating the room if possible. But most of all, listen to a lot of reference material - stuff that you know really well - in your room. Walk around and really listen for the difference it makes. Break in your monitors and listen, listen, listen. Then, check your mixes everywhere you can - on every system you can.

The reason NS-10s were so popular (and still are) is not that they were great sounding speakers - they are not. But they are flat - and if the mix sounds great on NS-10s, it will translate well to any system. And, I think, that is the real goal/art of mixing

I don't think you have to spend huge money on monitors. Just spend a lot of time learning your room & monitors and how your mixes translate to other systems.

hth

kc

[mazz]

Knowing your room and speakers and how the mixes translate to the outside world is more important than speakers, IMO, so +1 on Kayle's comments.

Since the room is really an extension of the speakers, without factoring room treatments into your equation, you will not realize the full benefits of your expensive speakers. It sounds like you already realize that.

Every change you make can make an incremental difference, but unless you have a neutral room, and there aren't many of those in the average sized room in a house, you will still need to learn how to mix on your new speakers in your existing room.

Buying speakers is a very personal thing, and every brand you mention has it's supporters and detractors.

If I were buying a new set of speakers, I would be buying the Dynaudio BM6.5 MK2s.

[benjet]

Thank you Kayle, Mazz - I've read many of your posts, love your music, and respect what both of you have to say.

I actually have my system set up in my front room that is (roughly) 400-450 square feet, (kind of an L shape). There are no parallel walls without conditioning, or thick curtains. The ceiling is vaulted, and elevates from 8' to 12'. Half of the floor is hardwood, the other half carpeted. There are pillars that need treatment.

I do listen on several amp/speaker combo's and as many different environments as I have the time for - my KRK monitors, a crappy car stereo, a nice Boston Acoustics car stereo, an nice Yamaha system, Older Onkyo stereo, Sony boom box, cheap earphones, and good earphones, computer speakers, my iPhone speakers .........

The other day I went into "The Church" studio here in Tulsa - and I was embarrassed by a slightly off key back up vocal that I missed when tracking, it was low in the mix and blended on my system, but stood out clearly with their system.

By the way "The Church" was Leon Russell's studio back in the 70's, and he recorded with the likes of Eric Clapton, George Harrison, Bob Seger in this facility, so I'm a bit in awe of the history there.

Mazz, thanks for the tip on the DynAudio, the BM6 MK II with the 6.5" speaker, right?

Also, I wonder how you guys feel about subs. I work with one now because I write hip hop and pop beats with and for my son, but man they can really throw a wrench in the works depending on the volume setting!


Tony

[mazz]

I don't work with subs but if I was doing a lot of hip hop or mixing for films or sound design, I might think about it. That being said, I'd have a way to turn it off when mixing music that didn't need that huge bottom like hip hop. It would be good to see if there's a bunch of crap way down there that might be stealing some headroom, but headphones are also a good way to check for that.

For small rooms, the Dynaudios I mentioned are killer, for a larger room, you might want 8" woofers. I have a pair of Events with 8s and they are fine, but a bit too much for my little tiny studio I just moved into. The Dynaudios will go down pretty low for 6.5 or 7 inch speakers and they have a lot of power. They also have a BM5 mark 2 that's supposed to be very nice as well, I think it has a bit less power than the 6.5s.

Keep rocking!!

[kclements]

I've heard great things about the Dynaudios and also the new Focal monitors.

Hey Mazz, can you talk a bit about your new studio in regards to sound treatment. So you have bass traps in each corner, auralex or other brand. I'm sure you have panals at the first reflection points, but what else.

My room sounds ok, but I don't have any treatment- yet. Something I want to address this year.

Thanks.

Kc

[mazz]

I have 6 inch thick traps in the front corners with an extra 4 inch thick piece that fits in the corner from Ready Acoustics:

http://www.readyacoustics.com/index.php ... ucts_id=22

Then I have 2 of the 4 inch thick traps above the listening position:

http://www.readyacoustics.com/index.php ... ucts_id=55

Due to the placement of the door and the size of the room (10X10) I had to "punt" with the first reflection spot and put another 4 inch panel in one rear corner, another in the wall/ceiling corner directly behind me and another on the wall to the right of that.

Directly behind the listening position I put 4 Auralex T fusors: http://www.auralex.com/sound_diffusor_t ... tfusor.asp

And I found these interesting recycled paper diffusion "tiles" that I am in the process of putting on the ceiling just past the two absorbers.

Overall it sounds really good in the "reflection free zone", but the bass response is not what I'm used to from my other room and I've found it a bit of a challenge to overcome. The stereo separation is really great and the depth that I can hear is improved, but I'm not getting the bass "punch" that I'd like at the listening position. If I get up and step back, then the bass is pretty loud, which leads me to believe that I have a huge null right where I am sitting. DOH!!! In a tiny room it's really hard to get it right. I may try some software just to see if I can balance it out a bit. I know I said I wouldn't do it, but I think it might be worth a try in the little room. The sound doesn't suck, in fact it's pretty darn good, it's just the bass that's problematic, but I already knew it might be in such a small room. I actually think having 6.5 or 7 inch woofers might be better than the 8s that I have now, but I'm not going to invest in some new speaks until I pay down some credit card stuff.

Sorry for the rant, hope this info helps.

Good luck on the speaker search!

Mazz

[rld]

Its been said that almost every smallish home studio needs some sort of broadband/bass trapping.
It pretty easy and inexpensive to DIY if you're that type person.
From a previous thread. http://forums.taxi.com/topic24679.html

[mojobone]

I would look at Event Opal and Focal, if I were buying new; would lean more toward the Focals for mixing acoustic instruments recorded in natural spaces, but for rock, pop and hiphop, I'd lean the other way, and the Opals are likely to hold their value a bit better. (also a little closer in general profile to your KRKs; stout, forward mids, crisp highs and a healthy low end) My speaker guy says the Dynaudios have cheap tweeters, but that doesn't mean they aren't accurate, nor well-matched to the cabs and woofers; if they work for you, they work, though they maybe don't have the snazziest, newest technology.

[benjet]

Hey Mazz, can you talk a bit about your new studio in regards to sound treatment. So you have bass traps in each corner, auralex or other brand. I'm sure you have panals at the first reflection points, but what else.

Great question, thanks for asking this Kalye.

Mazz - thanks again for your generousity with info. I've checked out the links and will probably make an order from there.

would lean more toward the Focals for mixing acoustic instruments recorded in natural spaces, but for rock, pop and hiphop, I'd lean the other way, and the Opals are likely to hold their value a bit better.

Thanks Mojo, I always appreciate it when you share your research and experience.

It pretty easy and inexpensive to DIY if you're that type person.

Thanks for the link RLD - unfortunately I work a full time job and try to focus on music another 40 - plus I'm not the greatest handyman. I guess I'm more likely to spend the extra for professionals to handle it - and spend my time on the music.


Tony