Comments plz, LATIN INSTRUMENTAL

[doctoreternal]

Comments requested on two tunes: http://www.taximusic.com/artists/DoctorEternalThe songs I'm submitting for this listing are "Invitation" and "Seaward".The Owner of a new Music Library needs a wide range of LATIN INSTRUMENTALS (no vocals) for use in film/TV/commercials, etc. All styles, variations, and sub-genres of Latin music are OK -- from traditional to modern/current.

[mazz]

Hi Doc,Great sound, composition and production values as usual.Invitation sounds like Spanish Latin to me. (I'm not totally up on all Latin styles and so take it all with at grain of salt). Rhythmically it didn't cry out Latin, and the melodies had the Spanish tinge but I would put it in the World category rather than smack dab in the middle of Latin.Seaward has all of the elements that make me say "Latin" without knowing the nuances of the different geographic sub-styles of Latin. Everything was in it's place and yet, for me, I was missing the hot-blooded, steamy feel that permeates what I've heard of Latin music, even the more mellow stuff like you're doing on this piece. The fills have it a bit but when the rest of the rhythm section comes in it feels a bit straight and square and on the beat. There's a certain linear, horizontal flow/undercurrent (clave?) in Latin music that this piece doesn't have.I hope this wasn't too blunt, I just hold you to a high bar in my mind when I listen to your stuff cause it's so good and consistent. I think you're almost there with Seaward, just work with the rhythm section to get it loosened up a bit!Mazz

[doctoreternal]

Thanks for the feedback. These are actually my very first Latin pieces ever, so all comments are taken in.Dr. E

[geo]

Hey Doc, love your stuff (checked out the African Gospel stuff as a "Ladysmith" fan from way back I really dug it) a few quick notes which I'll preface by saying I am no Latin expert. Of the two tracks "Seaward" has the most Latin feel to me, "Invitation" has a more "Alternative - New Age" feel which I like but it feels more like a Spanish/Latin treatment than a true and true Latin song. I tell ya "Messiah" has more of a Latin feel than either of these tracks and would consider dropping the vocals and adding some instrumental melodies to fill the space. Goodluck...Geo

[avillaronga]

Hey Doctor,I'll echo some of the points made by the others in that there's not a defined Latin feel to these tunes. I submit to a lot of the Latin listings and have gotten lots of forwards so I think I'm qualified for dispensing some advice. I do think they are great tunes, the melodies and harmonic variation are great so my comments go specifically to classifying these tunes as "Latin"."Seaward" is the closest, it has a nice Brazilian feel to it (since they are looking for sub-genres of latin this may work) but to make it true Brazilian music it has to feel a lot "looser", the arrangement sounds stiff and a bit over-quantized. The fake horns don't help. Try to make the arrangement more loose, especially with the percussion. Most Latin music is accented on the "and" of the 2 (in 4/4) but Brazilian music is heavily accented on 2 and 4. I studied Latin percussion and the one thing I learned about how to make something sound Latin is to always anticipate with the percussion, always program your percussion a few ticks ahead of the beat. "Invitation" does not sound Latin to me, there is the flamenco-ish guitar but with the rest of the arrangement sounding like something else it's hard to place it under "Latin". To me, the lead instrument is the least of the worries when writing Latin, what's going to make the song sound Latin is the rhythm section, not the lead guitar. If you put a Miles Davis solo over an electronica beat, would the solo alone make that a jazz piece? If you wanted to make this sound flamenco I would actually simplify the arrangement, make the guitar stand out. If you wanted to keep that electric guitar part holding everything together, I would get rid of a lot of the synth and just have the Elec. guitar accompanied by a classical guitar playing a fast arpeggio (and also loosen up the percussion as in the other track), that would go a long way to making that track sound more Latin.Mazz is right that for some Latin music there really needs to be a clave feeling that holds everything together. In these two pieces that is not as necessary since they are not Afro-Caribbean pieces but the rhythm section does need to sound loose and cohesive at the same time; I know that sounds like a contradiction but what I mean is the rhythm section itself has to sound cohesive as a unit (all percussion and bass have to be tight) while at the same time sounding loose with respect to the rest of the arrangement. I hope that makes sense (it did in my head but now that I read it... not so much). PM me if you want a more logical explanation and I'll try my best. I think I'll be submitting to the same listing, I'll see if I can get it done in advance to post here.Hope this helps,Antonio

[doctoreternal]

Thanks very much, guys, that helps a lot. Unfortunately, I don't have time to modify them further before the deadline (we're moving).Could you recommend some artists I can listen to for that real Latin sound? I'll likely submit to more Latin listing in the future.Cheers,Dr. E

[avillaronga]

Quote:Could you recommend some artists I can listen to for that real Latin sound? I'll likely submit to more Latin listing in the future.This listing was pretty open-ended so it's hard to pick a short list of artists to recommend; other listings have come with "a-la's" that are useful; for example the Latin Instrumental that ran in June (and I got forwarded for) listed artists like Nortec Collective, Kinky, Ozomatli, etc. Those are all people that are mixing traditional Latin with modern stuff. For this listing you could have done something like that or gone with a more traditional sound. It all depends on what sub-genre of Latin you want to do, there's really no artist that I can mention that is an all-encompassing Latin sound, it all depends on the listing. Check out the iTunes Latino "Essentials" playlists, those have some good examples by sub-genre. Since you were trying to go with a flameco sound in one of your tunes I suggest listening to Gypsy Kings (the older the recording, the better). For the Brazilian type of stuff you were going for on your other tune try Gilberto Gil (studio stuff, the live recordings cross over into the jazzy arena too much). For more modern stuff try listening to anything produced by Gustavo Santaolalla (even his soundtracks), you'll get a feel for the more pop- or rock-influenced stuff there. For the more tropical or Afro-Caribbean stuff you can't go wrong with Tito Puente (again, stay away from the Jazzy stuff unless you want to do Latin-jazz) or get the soundtrack to "Buena Vista Social Club". Or listen to Juan Luis Guerra, he usually mixes up styles a bit in his albums (make sure it is not one of his religious albums) so you can get a feel for a few different styles by listening to him. He is also an outstanding arranger. But, again, it all comes down to the listing, keep in mind that to most Americans there is just "Latin" music, for anyone involved in Latin music there is a subset of at least 25 genres that are completely unrelated to each other and you can't simply play "Latin" music. A Mariachi song is not the same as Salsa is not the same as Andino or Bossa or Samba or Calypso and once you start throwing the modern stuff in, it gets even more complicated; Latin Rock is not the same as Reggaeton but both of those modern genres may borrow stuff from the same traditional genres, etc. So read the listing carefully (as with all listings of course). Antonio

[doctoreternal]

Thanks, Antonio! I'm off to iTunes...

[hummingbird]

Quote:Comments requested on two tunes: http://www.taximusic.com/artists/DoctorEternalThe songs I'm submitting for this listing are "Invitation" and "Seaward".The Owner of a new Music Library needs a wide range of LATIN INSTRUMENTALS (no vocals) for use in film/TV/commercials, etc. All styles, variations, and sub-genres of Latin music are OK -- from traditional to modern/current.Hi Dr E - finally got a chance to listen to these.Invitation - as I listened I felt that it wasn't really a Latin track. It felt much more sort of new age. I wasn't too sure about the drum track... it felt kinda distracting. But I really like the composition and I actually think that if you remixed it and made the percussion softer & went for an ambient feel, it might work for that upcoming new age-electronic orchestral 'feel good' instrumentals.Seaward - right away, a Latin beat and I like the composition. I'm no expert in Latin music, but it sounds like you've had some good suggestions above regarding producing more authentic sounds.Good for you for trying your hand at this!cheersHummin'bird