Country Music Listing Confusion....?!

[ljweber70]

I've been a country music fan all of my life but am running into a bit of confusion on the industries' country music "categories"....In July, I joined TAXI and immediately submitted 5 or 6 of my demos to ALL of the country listings at that time. (I'm learning!) As I am getting my critiques back, its obvious that those songs do not belong in the "country pop" genre and shouldn't have been submitted in the first place. However, I've had multiple screener's review the same song (for different listings) and have contradictory remarks regarding "genre." IE: the same song has been labeled "right on" for a "contemporary" country listing, "too traditional" for another "contemporary" listing and "not close enough to listing" for a "neo traditional listing". I'm a bit confused with the terminology and frustrated in determining what "category" my songs fall in and accordingly, what listings to submit to. What specifically makes a song "contemporary country" vs. "neo traditional" vs. "traditional"? For example, some listings want "neo" traditional country -- "think Brad Paisley..." What makes Brad Paisley's music "neo" ?? In my opinion, Brad Paisley is a traditional country artist with a "neo" production on his CD's. Providing the screener loves everything else about the song, can my production be the deciding factor whether or not I get the forward? Surely I don't need a regular and "club mix" of a song for submissions..?? Any guidance in this area would be greatly appreciated!Thank you,Larry Weber

[squidlips]

Hi Larry!Well, I feel your pain and I don't even write for country! I mean, Brad Paisley?? Hello, isn't neo something more like Rascal Flatts (crossing over into pop) or Jewel (crossing over FROM pop) right now? Brad's almost a standard in the biz now, he's been around so long. I'd have considered Nickel Creek (in their day) as neo. Something innovative, like Gretchen was a couple of years ago. Brad's been washing his stuff through a new producer but I don't consider that neo.I wish I had something constructive to offer....maybe one of the other vets here could tell you. Just wanted you to know I understand where you are with this. It's frustrating to figure out their criteria and even then, it can vary from one reviewer to another, which only complicates things more. I've had this happen to me a number of times. I really keep an eye on the ala's in the listing to help me narrow down what they're looking for but, in the end, it's still in the eye of the reviewer.Good luck. Hope someone here can help make this more clear to you.

[matto]

It can be a bit challenging to get a feel for the subcategories in any musical style. The best advice I can give is to closely listen to the latest releases by all the "a la" artists mentioned, and figure out what they have in common. It takes a little time and effort, but it will pay dividends. It's just something we all have to do when we enter the arena of professional pitching.Brad Paisley is great example of a neo-traditionalist, because his music has strong traditional underpinnings, yet the melodies, lyrics, attitude and, yes, production have generally more of a contemporary edge.You don't have to have a different demo for all the subcategories, but it's important to realize that not every song is gonna fit into all subcategories, regardless of production. The writing itself, from lyrical themes to lingo to melodies to chord changes to form is an important factor in determining if a song is mainstream, pop leaning, neo trad or straight up traditional...On the other hand, if your production sounds really dated and "old timey" country, that's definitely gonna be a drawback when pitching to any current Nashville listing.matto

[jimmynashville]

I live in Nashville and record here. The confusion is not coming from your interpretation of "genre" within country, etc. It's because Nashville has become a very strange place in the past 10 years.What happened was that a bunch of washed up lite rock producers moved here from California and started putting their fingers in places they don't belong, thus acts like Rascall Flatts, SheDaisy, etc. What they mean by "contemporary" or "today's country", or whatever other euphemism they're using, is "lite rock" or "adult contemporary", but just throw steel guitar in the background once it's all done and call it country.Real country confuses the hell out of these people, they think it's way off the map. The demographic that these people are marketing are not even the true country fan base, they're trying to broaden its mass appeal by watering it down, thus annoying everyone who's a fan of the true genre.What's really frustrating is when some yuppie from California is trying to tell a redneck from Tennessee what is and is not country...

[clonsberry]

Quote:What's really frustrating is when some yuppie from California is trying to tell a redneck from Tennessee what is and is not country...In the wise words of David Allan Coe and Jimmy Rabbitt.... "and I don't need some turkey telling me that I ain't country.."Apparently, the problem isn't that new.

[bombaycharlie1]

I know I got to the taxi page where they list all of the genre's and artist and listen to the ones mentioned, and try and figure out what they all have in common, and go from there. Like Matto said it's time consuming, but it usually gives me an idea.., my two cents ( I don't know how to type the 'cent' sign!)Charlie

[horacejesse]

Quote:Real country confuses the hell out of these people, they think it's way off the map. The demographic that these people are marketing are not even the true country fan base, they're trying to broaden its mass appeal by watering it down, thus annoying everyone who's a fan of the true genre.JimmyNashville, what a great post. I know you hit everything on the head. Are you TaxiJimmy?

[sgs4u]

Quote:What's really frustrating is when some yuppie from California is trying to tell a redneck from Tennessee what is and is not country...It has been my experience that rednecks have as much to learn as I do and everyone else on this little planet. I am very careful now about who's views I pay attention to, but I've also learned that I can be taught by anyone. Country music will always keep changing, just like every other kind of music. Remember the early '80's? There was a lot of hootin and hollerin about the birth of drugstore cowboys. Nobody that got to cash cheques minded at all though. And I'd expect the Nashville machine is still very attentive to trends, be they traditional or yuppie.There's room for everyone.steve

[jchitty]

Quote:I've been a country music fan all of my life but am running into a bit of confusion on the industries' country music "categories"....In July, I joined TAXI and immediately submitted 5 or 6 of my demos to ALL of the country listings at that time. (I'm learning!) As I am getting my critiques back, its obvious that those songs do not belong in the "country pop" genre and shouldn't have been submitted in the first place. However, I've had multiple screener's review the same song (for different listings) and have contradictory remarks regarding "genre." IE: the same song has been labeled "right on" for a "contemporary" country listing, "too traditional" for another "contemporary" listing and "not close enough to listing" for a "neo traditional listing". I'm a bit confused with the terminology and frustrated in determining what "category" my songs fall in and accordingly, what listings to submit to. What specifically makes a song "contemporary country" vs. "neo traditional" vs. "traditional"? For example, some listings want "neo" traditional country -- "think Brad Paisley..." What makes Brad Paisley's music "neo" ?? In my opinion, Brad Paisley is a traditional country artist with a "neo" production on his CD's. Providing the screener loves everything else about the song, can my production be the deciding factor whether or not I get the forward? Surely I don't need a regular and "club mix" of a song for submissions..?? Any guidance in this area would be greatly appreciated!Thank you,Larry Weber I can only give examples of what I think are the different breakdowns of traditional, neo-traditional and contemporary.Traditional: When I think of traditional, I think of people like Patsy Cline, Kitty Wells, George Jones, Merle Haggard, Hank Sr., Loretta, Tammy etc.. As far as NEW 'traditional' country artists, the closest thing to that would be Chris Young. And that's debatable.....he may even go into the neo-traditional category. I don't really see many listings for traditional country artists out there anymore though. Traditional country artists are still around, but I see them more in bluegrass venues now, even alt-country listings. I actually break down Neo-Traditional, although if a listing says Neo-traditional, it most likely just means a wide category of country artists. When I think 'old school' Neo-Traditional, I think Alan Jackson, Vince Gill, Sammy Kershaw, Tracy Lawrence (got a fantastic song out right now though), Patty Loveless, George Strait, Randy Travis....anyone who basically was part of the music scene in Nashville in the late 80's and early 90's. These folks were influenced by the traditionalists, but their music was a little more palatable to baby boomers while retaining its country roots. It's still great music, just not the pure traditional stuff. When I think 'new school' Neo-Traditional, (people who were influenced by the people in the late to middle 80's and early 90's), I think Brad Paisley, Joe Nichols, Kenny Chesney, Blake Shelton, Trace Atkins, Gretchen Wilson etc. Some of the newer neo-traditionalists have even done some more contemporary stuff, so it can be confusing at times, but basically, they do stick to a certain pattern.When I think contemporary country, I think Little Big Town, Keith Urban, Montgomery Gentry (at least that's what I've been told, although they sound Neo sometimes), Rascal Flatts, and The Wreckers, etcThen there are people who are just hard to classify to me....folks like Carrie Underwood (could be both contemporary and neo-traditional), Kelly Pickler, Big & Rich, etc.You really have to listen to lots of country music....go to a library and familiarize yourself with all the music through the years....go back as early as the 40s even. You'll start to get a feel for what's what. I usually hit my targets pretty well....it's usually my lyrics or melodies that suffer, but I do get a few screener comments indicating that I know the market. Country might seem simple, but it takes a lot of study and listening to all types of country music to know the nuances of what listings are asking for. My one mess up was recently....when I submitted to a Montgomery Gentry listing, my submissions weren't targeted as well. Hope that helped.BTW, I LOVE country music!

[jimmynashville]

How about this, I submitted 2 different songs to about 20 country listings, and repetitively got these same comments back...Thanks for sending in your song. I like the overall idea here. Melodically, I might suggest having a listen to artists such as Keith Urban to hear the types of dynamic and catchy contemporary melodic ideas the listing was looking for.Good job overall and good luck!Not just a variation of the words, the exact words. I got form-lettered from what were supposed to be legit critiques. Also, Keith Urban is not the end all be all of Country music today. I bet if Taxi heard Billy Currington's latest radio single "Good Directions" before it was on a record or radio they'd say "it's too hillbilly sounding, listen to Keith Urban..."