Decent Vocal and Overall Export Levels

[gwenknittweis]

Hi All,I’m using Cubase with Virtual guitar to sketch songs and make backtracks. Use a Korg M1 as a midicontroller and the stock Cubase sounds for drum and bass. Recently started adding audio tracks (vocals) into Cubase, with a goal towards someday being able to produce viable home demos.The problem: the addition of the vocal has made to overall volume of what I’m able to export from Cubase go waaaay down . I’m recording into an Audiophile 2496. I use an MXL V63M condenser Mic into a PreSonus TubePre and feed the TubePre output into the audio input of the Audiophile 2496. The vocal track level usually has to be lowered significantly so there is no “clipping” throughout the vocal track and then I have mix all the virtual instrument tracks down so the vocal is prominent. Then the export audio mixdown is pathetically low. (The virtual instrument-only versions are much louder).From my limited knowledge and reading, I’m guessing that a vocal compressor might help considerably, perhaps along with some kind of mastering program. One of the books I’m referring to, “Guerilla Home Recording,” strongly recommends a hardware compressor in lieu of a plug-in. One potentially goofy question: where in the signal chain does the Compressor go- can you just put it between the Presonus TubePre and soundcard input? (I’m not even 100% sure I should go straight into the soundcard without going through a mixer first, but Ican’t find anythingthat says not to- I do have an ancient Portasound 488 that I could use as a mixing board if needed). There’s another thread on here discussing vocal compressors and I’ll be checking out the mentioned models.Another question: Is a mastering program/plug-in essential to get workable home demos, say for TAXI submission purposes?One more question: is there anything else I should check out to the problem?I’m fairly new to recording/production overall (took a class, read some books, but little hands on and much to learn) and don’t have the most impressive equipment list (Argh, I was uber-intimidatd by the “What’s In Your Studio” e-mail thread on here).Anyway, I’d appreciate some sage advice from any of folks on this forum that are more recording/production savvy than me (should be basically EVERYBODY ). Thanks.LHMias

[mazz]

There's two schools of thought about compressing during recording. If you know what you're doing, it can work well to do it on the way in. For your situation and level of experience, I'd try to get a decent level without clipping on the way in without any compression, and then experiment with compression after you've got the track. It's pretty much impossible to compensate for bad compression work on an already recorded track.It sounds like you do need to compress the vocals somewhat because the vocal is probably too soft in the soft parts and too loud in the loud parts, compression will help smooth that out.The best way to learn this stuff is to do it, screw it up and try to figure out why you screwed it up. Books, videos, post it here, etc., will help you find your way. Compression is a tricky beast to tame and can be confusing at first but hang in there.As far as signal chain goes: If you were going to compress as you were recording, you'd put the compressor after the pre-amp unless the pre-amp had an insert, then it would go there. For post recording compression, in your DAW, it would be inserted on the vocal channel, however that is done in Cubase (not familiar with it).One way to think of a compressor is as an automatic volume control. The threshold parameter adjusts how sensitive the compressor is to the input signal (typically turning it clockwise makes it less sensitive). The attack parameter adjusts how fast the volume is turned down after the threshold is crossed. The release parameter adjusts how fast the volume is turned back up after the signal goes below the threshold. The compression ratio adjusts how aggressively the compressor adjusts the volume based on the loudness of the signal after it crosses the threshold. For instance, a 3:1 compression ratio will turn the volume down 3db for every 1db change above the threshold. (all of this assumes a compressor, not an expander which is pretty much the opposite) It gets a bit dicey because all of the controls interact. The best way to do this, IMO, is to use extreme settings so you can actually hear the compressor crushing the signal and then back off from there. You'll learn to hear the onset of compression easier if you know what it actually sounds like to begin with.Don't get too overwhelmed, take it one step at a time. Happy New Year,MazzPS: Mastering is a different subject although it uses similar tools. Post a mix up here prior to mastering. Get the mix right first and you won't have to do much in the mastering.

[jh]

Quote:For instance, a 3:1 compression ratio will turn the volume down 3db for every 1db change above the threshold.I think Mazz meant to say that, for every 3 db of signal that goes into the unit (or plug-in), it turns it down so that only 1 db comes out. (Or did I misunderstood something? )- JH

[jh]

You can bring up the overall level (without clipping) if you put a limiter on the "Stereo Out" channel. (applies to Cubase SX)1. "Devices" --> 2. "Mixer" --> 3. then click the "e" button on the Stereo Out channel --> 4. after that, click on any slot (preferably i7, there´s a reason for that, but I don´t want to confuse you with the technical mumbo jumbo )5. select a "Dynamics" plug-in 6. click a button that says "Limiter"HTH - JH

[mazz]

Quote:Quote:For instance, a 3:1 compression ratio will turn the volume down 3db for every 1db change above the threshold.I think Mazz meant to say that, for every 3 db of signal that goes into the unit (or plug-in), it turns it down so that only 1 db comes out. (Or did I misunderstood something? )- JHAhh dyslexia strikes again!! I'm pretty sure you're right and I'm wrong on that one.Thanks for the heads up!!Mazz

[jh]

Quote:Ahh dyslexia strikes again!! I'm pretty sure you're right and I'm wrong on that one.Thanks for the heads up!!MazzNo prob. Don´t worry Mazz.You wouldn´t believe how often I´m not writing what I think I´m writing... Like now , I´m not sure if that makes any sense to anybody - JH

[gwenknittweis]

Mazz and JH,Thank you so much for your advice on this one. I'm sitting down this weekend to give it a go and will hopefully be able to make some breakthroughs! Kind of you to share your knowledge! LM

[gwenknittweis]

Hi Michael,Thanks for the tips- I'll report back as I try stuff. I tried JT's trick with the "limiter" on the "stereo out" channel and was able to get a much louder export. Thanks JT -that information was buried in the Cubase manual and who know how long it would've taken to me find it...Michael- I just read an article today that echoed your comment that hardware compression isn't a necessity if you're recording at the full 24-bits and don't have much noise on your inputs. I think I'll experiment more with the plug-ins (or actually, there's a compressor in Cubase where the "limiter" is but I don't know how to use it yet) more before I break down and buy a hardware compressor. Lots more to learn and will be reading and experimenting much. In addition to the helpful folks here,In my travels I've found some great websites. http://www.tweakheadz.com is my favorite so far- helpful and written in a light comedic style. Will be burning up the learning curve. LM