Dissecting a hit

[onoffon]

Okay - The exact quote was, "And when you belittle that... it just comes across as condescending. And that's a pity."So, it's a pity that I show the appearance of condescension when I belittle the craft of hit songwriting by inferring that marketing may be more important than the ability to write a hit song... is that right? I think so...Pitiful, by definition, means 'deserving or arousing pity', therefore, my opinion is pitiful in its appearance of condescension.Whatever...

[matto]

Quote:But no matter how many royalties it generates it will never be a good song to anyone who knows the first thing about music.Actually you've never even heard the song, by your own admission...so I'm not sure how you can comment on the music. I thank you however for informing me that I don't know the first thing about music. I think I'm gonna cry myself to sleep tonight...

[Casey H]

OMG!!How did this thread turn out to be so full of anger? I thought I was posting something helpful to songwriters. Now, I'm sorry I ever started this thread.I don't think one person has commented on the positive aspects of the lyrics to the song. Maybe I'm the only one who thought the conversational and youthful** nature of some of the lyric were examples of good songwriting techniques. (** the average age of the music buying public is probably under 25).All this anger... I don't get it. Casey

[matto]

Okay,so since I don't know the first thing about music I'm not gonna comment about what I think about this or that song, or what one might learn about hit songwriting by studying certain lyrics or melodies or whatever...coming from me that would be an obvious waste of everybody's time, since...I don't know the first thing about music... What I would say is this: anybody who thinks all it takes to make a song a hit is major marketing money behind it....have you ever seen statistics about how many singles are released by MAJOR labels with MAJOR money behind them every single year...and how few of them actually become hits?And how about all those songs who become hits WITHOUT a major label or major money behind them? There's examples of that in every single decade at the least.And those who think their songs could be hits if only somebody gave them a giant wad of money to market them...do you think all hit songwriters are born with a silver spoon in their mouth?How about somebody like Jason Blume who didn't have a hundred bucks in his bank account at age forty...but still persevered despite everybody telling him he was a fool?Or how about all those inner city kids...the ones who actually know what being poor really means...who make it big in urban music despite overwhelming odds?Okay, I forgot they don't know the first thing about music so I guess they don't count. Look, it's easy to get discouraged in this industry...it's also easy to become a cynic and blame everything from lack of money to inept executives to payola to Taxi for one's lack of success. But those are ALL excuses, because there are people every single year who succeed despite facing the exact same obstacles and dealing with the exact same industry as everybody else.If you think the music industry sucks and is promoting only the worst kind of crap...why are you a Taxi member pitching to THAT industry? Wouldn't that be an utter waste of time and money?matto

[michael11]

With all the furore about this song I though I must have a listen as I have never heard it before.My impressions are it is a typical pop song.Now for the technical bit.A quiet intimate opening then a killer hook with lots of energy. The only bit that is still going through my mind is,since you been gone.For songs of this type I much prefer Skater Boi which I think is a brilliantly constructed song.Would I buy Since You Been Gone.NoWhat I would buy is another song that I heard for the first time today.Dance With My Father.Surely it's not about merit it's about personal preference.

[Casey H]

Quote:Back to the actual SONG that Casey posted. This song works because I think the lyrics make the kids feel like the singer is right inside their mind, saying what they'd say, that she's singing about their life in the words that they use. Thanks you Vikki for finding the better words to say what I was trying to say about the lyrics.... Plain and simple, for better or for worse, love it or hate it... and know your audience!!! Quote: Nobody mentioned something essential in making this song a hit, the way it goes into the hook. The music breaks at the end of the verse and the vocals go up into a higher register right on the title words. To me, this is why it is so catchy.And Nomi, thanks for raising another great point about the songwriting technique: sectional contrast... Not only does the chorus go up to a higher register, the bridge boldly goes (waaaaay up) where no man has gone before, LOL Of course it takes an incredibly talented vocalist to perform the vocal range of this song and she does it, again, like the song or not. (Kids: Don't pick this one for your initial American Idol audition, LOL!)Now, more thoughts... For centuries there have always been great artists of all kinds who never made it commercially or achieved recognition. Many went to their graves as very bitter men or women. From a pure songwriting-craft perspective, thousands have written far "better" than this and that includes many songwriters right here. What matters is what your goal is. Are you trying to pitch your songs for Top 40 pop artists? In that case, this song offers you a lot to think about. If you write country it may be a bit different but I don't listen to current country songs at all, so I can't really comment. But, if Top 40 country is your goal, then you have to study what is making it, and decide if you can deal with that.Also, channeling your energy and talent (and anger?) into film/TV pitches can be a good way to go. There are so many types of film scenes, for example, that call for a large variety of material representing all genres and decades.Sorry Nomi, for stirring up the pot and getting people away from helping with your studio! And at least no one has mentioned "screener #216" for a while!! And Matto, thanks for recognizing your lack of understanding of songwriting and the music industry. It's best that you know your limitations and don't post... (That's a joke, folks!) And that's all I have to say about that. Casey

[davewalton]

Quote:A quiet intimate opening then a killer hook with lots of energy. The only bit that is still going through my mind is,since you been gone.Sometimes I think of these songs as if they (and the artist singing them) were unknown and they were played at one of the listening panels at the Taxi rally.For anyone who has sat through these, you know that it's mostly one bad to mediocre song after another or songs that aren't even in the right category with maybe only one or two standing out and even then not so much. "Since You've Been Gone" and the vocal performance that goes along with it would certainly bring the audience to their feet in one of these listening panel sessions. I'm also sure that the A&R panelists would be pretty interested in getting more information.I wouldn't buy the song either because pop isn't my main preference. But like Mick said, the chorus and performance is SO powerful that at the end it's just stuck in your head.I wouldn't be embarassed to have written it. Dave

[Casey H]

I am so over this thread. Casey

[hummingbird]

Quote:What I would buy is another song that I heard for the first time today.Dance With My Father.Surely it's not about merit it's about personal preference.I loved Dance with my Father from the first time I heard it