Distinction Between Cue and Instumental?

[regardner]

Are the terms instrumental and cue synonymous? In some listings and in many threads on this forum, I get the idea that they are. Other times I get the feeling there is a distinction which I have failed to grasp.

Any help in clarifying would be greatly appreciated.

[jazzstan]

I'd love to hear what folks with more experience say on this topic. But to me an instrumental would have a more traditional structure with a distinct melody, perhaps a harmony, and a verse/chorus and maybe a bridge or similar element. Whereas a cue ~could be~ as simple as an A section that repeats with different instruments, textures, harmonic or rhythmic parts and distinct edit points along the way. Or if an ABA, or AABA structure, the "B" isn't going to be a big contrast, but rather a subtle variation of the A part.

An instrumental could be used as "source music" ..e.g. from a car radio, juke box, live band - etc, something that's a natural part of scene. But a cue is only there as underscore to enhance the mood of the scene.

[regardner]

Thanks, Stan. So an instumental would have a more traditional melody than a cue, along with a slightly more complex structure?

[markhimley]

I will try my hand at explaining this. I have a pretty good grasp on the differences, but explaining them? HA. That's a whole other story

But I think it might help to sort of lay them out in a linear fashion..

Song - Your typical vocal song - we all know what this is, right? Song structure, lyrical vocal is the main focus.

Muzak - Same exact song, exact replace the lyrical vocal with an instrument. This often sounds super cheesy, but has it's place in the licensing world.

Instrumental - Same structure as the previous two (see song structures), however the melody is NOT maintained throughout with one instrument like muzak. It will often be a combination of lead sounds using call and response, more sparse melodies, lots of ear candy (cool and interesting sounds that help maintain interest without being too frenetic or distracting), or other elements to keep things moving forward. These will also have typical song length (3-5 minutes).

Cue - Unlike the previous 3, the cue does NOT follow song structure. The cue has a very distinct job to do. That's right, it is providing a service. It is not created for entertainment value, like the previous 3. A cue is written to support ONE mood, with generally ONE main melodic idea. Depending on the style, a cue ranges from 90 seconds (1:30) to 3 minutes. 2:00-2:30 seems to be the most common length I have seen. A cue GENERALLY is built in 4-8 bar sections. I.E. every 4-8 bars something is changing. This can be a number of things: adding/subtracting layers, add/remove melodies and harmonies, risers, transition fx, etc etc. As mentioned above a cue will typically have an AAA or AABA structure, or some variation of that. I think it helps when cue writing to remember that you are NOT trying to impress anyone. You are NOT trying to show off your abilities or how great of a composer or producer you are. However you ARE providing a service. Your goal is to make a piece of music that supports one mood/emotion very well, a piece of music that walks the line between being simple enough to not distract, but interesting enough to fit in with the style and quality of the show. I could go on, but I think (hope) I've cleared it up a little bit. As stated by a very prolific music supervisor at the road rally - "I don't want the best music, I want the RIGHT music." and - "you are in the film/tv industry, not the music industry." I think just understanding that - that you are just a small part of the puzzle providing a service for the greater (film/tv) industry, that helps you write more accurately and appropriately, which will lead to more success and more placements.


If you have not yet, I HIGHLY recommend purchasing Dean's Books (Demystifying the Cue, Demystifying the Genre, and Write, Submit Forget Repeat). Also Steve Barden just put out a book too, although I can't technically vouch for that one as it's still next on my list to read, I've already heard wonderful things about it and can't wait to dig in.

Demystifying the Genre also comes with audio examples, which are open to the public. Maybe go through and check these out, and you will very quickly see how cues are structured and how they function. All of these cues, to the best of knowledge, have earned many placements.

https://soundcloud.com/all-screen-music


Sorry for the length, but hopefully that helps!!

[regardner]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your very thoughtful reply. I took a screenshot of it for easy reference later.

I have listened to a lot of cues, including Dean's examples in his first two books--which I have read, btw, and agree as to their excellence--and I think I get the concept of the cue. It's the in-between, not-quite-this-not-quite-that nature of the instrumental that has me puzzled. I wonder if there an example of a definitive instrumental that you could point to and say, "that's what it is."

Best wishes,
Bob

[markhimley]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your very thoughtful reply. I took a screenshot of it for easy reference later.

I have listened to a lot of cues, including Dean's examples in his first two books--which I have read, btw, and agree as to their excellence--and I think I get the concept of the cue. It's the in-between, not-quite-this-not-quite-that nature of the instrumental that has me puzzled. I wonder if there an example of a definitive instrumental that you could point to and say, "that's what it is."

Best wishes,
Bob

Oh right on, that's awesome!! Well to your point - I think the line is getting blurred more and more as time goes on. At least for certain genres like EDM, Future Bass, EDM Trap, and other similar genres of electronic music. The bar is always getting higher and higher, and even cues have to have almost an "artist" quality if that makes sense, they can't sound like regular old library music. I have a publisher that states in the requests that I get something along the lines of "even if your tracks are in cue structure they need to sound like artist tracks". Those requests are for the genres I mentioned.

In terms of really finding the line though - I think it comes down to length and structure IMHO. Instrumentals tend to have more of a song structure, and they tend to take a little bit longer to develop partially due to that longer structure. Cues are very much a 'get to the point' and don't sway too far type of track, while instrumentals tend to have a little more wiggle room.

As for giving you an example. Not to toot my own horn - but I recently did a collab track that was forwarded for an instrumental listing, and got very kind and reassuring remarks from the screener. Feel free to listen if you'd like, maybe it'll help shed some light.

https://soundcloud.com/markhimley/midni ... -ck-barlow

[regardner]

Wow! That's a great track!

And I think I get the distinction, although it seems to me that track could still be used to underscore a film scene.

The production elements sound fantastic. Are those vocal samples played like a melody?

[markhimley]

Wow! That's a great track!

And I think I get the distinction, although it seems to me that track could still be used to underscore a film scene.

The production elements sound fantastic. Are those vocal samples played like a melody?

Thank you!!

That is the goal indeed - but I suppose that blurs the line a bit more.. Yea, honestly you probably understand it just fine:) We have a way of overthinking these things, myself included. There are a lot of grey areas, and lines that get blurred, especially as the bar continues to rise and the industry continues to change - not to mention the fact that it's only getting easier and easier for everyone to produce A+ quality stuff from their bedroom. Everyone expects artist quality now it seems like.

Some of them are, and some of them are not. The main vocal hook was added by my collaborator, CK. She found a stock vocal loop inside of Logic, and did some pretty cool chopping, editing, and processing on it. I learned a ton from working with her on this track! Super talented, and even more kind.

Some of the other vocal samples are a combination of one shots and vocal chops played like a melody from a sampler. All of which have been chopped, edited, and processed to make them our own and unique to fit with this track.

[Kolstad]

There was a Taxi TV episode with this question answered https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LPqHutw4D ... e=youtu.be

[regardner]

Thanks to all three of you for taking the time to reply to my question.

I will put that episode of Tax TV into my queue.