Drum Controller Recommendations?

[jonnybutter]

To make this a formal thread...

Anybody have any luck with drum controllers triggering external samples? I asked this in another thread about how to get convincing MIDI drum tracks (a good answer to that question is to play them in, preferably with sticks).

I notice that most drum sets or pads are tied tightly to their own internal sounds, or the 'brain', in the case of an E. drum set. Most of them do have MIDI out, but I notice they don't tout that for use triggering samples live, but rather for edit software or firmware updates. I have lots of great drum and percussion samples but don't have a good way to trigger them, other than pads on my keyboard controller (not that good) or keys themselves.

I have asked sales reps about it and they never want to commit to the idea that a particular set of pads or e drumset is going to work well for triggering - and I don't blame them, because you don't really know until you try it.

Anybody have luck?

[Russell Landwehr]

I'm interested in this as well. I've tried some budget triggers and have NOT been impressed. I've got a feeling the best stuff for this is Roland.

I've got Aerodrums... http://aerodrums.com/aerodrums-product-page/ had 'em since October... haven't set them up yet... mebbe it's time so I can review them for my peers, eh?

Regards
Russell Landwehr

[jonnybutter]

Those Areodrums are a kick man!

Mojo replied on the other thread, so I'll just paste it here for convenience. It does look like Roland is the way to go - I was just hoping for something cheaper, but I guess you do get what you pay for. I have tried their kits, and they're pretty awesome.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TD4KPS This is reasonably rugged, portable and will get the job done; just add sticks, a kick pedal and a throne, and you're still probably under a thousand USD. (maybe add a monitor, if you're gonna gig it) It costs less than my first electric kit, an Alesis DM10Pro, and I plan to pick one up for casual gigs, because setup is super quick and simple-you could keep it in a closet when you're not using it, because it folds up, but mine will probably live in the truck with my other gig rigs. The TD4K can be upgraded with a mesh-head snare, which I'd recommend, cuz you can't do rimshots or cross-stick without it, though there are workarounds if you're using VIs.

My home rig is the DM10Pro, plus this: http://www.alesis.com/controlpad Sadly, it's been discontinued; it has no sounds of its own, but makes for a great and cheap expander, once you figure out a way to mount it. (there's hardware available, but I just used industrial Velcro) If you can add a laptop and interface, you can run a VI like Addictive Drums; I probably will, cuz I've never yet heard a hardware electric kit with internal sounds that satisfied me. Speaking of which, if you're already an acoustic drummer, you're never going to be entirely happy with the feel of an electronic kit, better to get triggers for your own tubs if you're particular.

[jonnybutter]

I just scored an Alesis Control Pad on ebay. Awesome. One of these days I'll get an e-kit - soon I hope - but for now this is going to make a lot of difference.

[Russell Landwehr]

Cool. and thanks for reposting, I watched the Demo for the Roland set. I like the rubber heads. I've tried the mesh heads, but they feel like I'm playing a trampoline.

[jonnybutter]

I'll report back on the Alesis box. As I said in the original thread, which was about getting good MIIDI drum tracks, I have at times gotten away with using less than stellar sounds because the *feel* of a track was so much better playing with sticks. I'm hoping latency is not much of a problem so I can go to town.

[Russell Landwehr]

The thing about using a MIDI controller to "play" the VST drums.... The MIDI controller is going to be set up to trigger the same MIDI note(s) every time. I'm familiar with Addictive Drums, and they have several MIDI notes assigned to each drum (in non-GM setups). I would imagine this is the case for most of the best Drum VSTi stuff. This would mean to get the best realistic drum performance, you would still have to do some MIDI note mash-up mousing. Otherwise you are still going to run up against the hated "retriggering-the-same-sample" problem that plagues MIDI drum performances.

[jonnybutter]

The thing about using a MIDI controller to "play" the VST drums.... The MIDI controller is going to be set up to trigger the same MIDI note(s) every time.

Hmm.
Why would the controller pads function differently from the keys on a keyboard? Generally, the round robin stuff is handled by the VI. One MIDI *note* triggers many samples. I guess we shall see though. Will let you know how it works out!

[Russell Landwehr]

Hmm.
Why would the controller pads function differently from the keys on a keyboard? Generally, the round robin stuff is handled by the VI. One MIDI *note* triggers many samples. I guess we shall see though. Will let you know how it works out!

Yes, most drum VSTi stuff does the round-robin thing, but that is not the ONLY thing they do.

Let's take the HH for example... there are many different ways to hit a high hat. Many different open/closed positions. Many different places to hit it... on the edge, on the bell... etc.

Taking Addictive drums for instance (since that's what I'm familiar with)... there are a handful-and-a-half of MIDI notes (in the non-GM [GM=General MIDI]setup) that are dedicated just to the High Hat in all they ways it can be played... and each of those notes will round-robin different strikes on that note. If you were going to use the best Drum VSTs to their fullest potential, you would assign EVERY pad on your MIDI controller to just play High Hat in one pass... then go back and assign it for playing all the Snare articulations on the next pass.... etc...

Even Round-Robin stuff lacks the expressiveness of real drums... It all boils down to what level of "realism" you are shooting for. Triggering round-robin samples with the same MIDI note would be extremely noticeable in a jazz number, but not noticed so much in some sort of electronic rock song.

Russell

[jonnybutter]

OK, I'm getting you now. Yeah, I don't expect total plug and play for drumset stuff. particularly if I'm doing jazz. But for percussion parts it's going to be awesome. And I'll use a hi hat pedal for hi hat. Logic X has a very cool feature in its drum designer. You control open/close/partial for the hi hat with controller 1. It is remarkably good sounding!

Anyway, we'll see how it goes. I'll report back.