Find the return reason in this classic jazz quartet

[Paulie]

Got a return for this, for a similar reason to a past return (which I disagreed with then). Curious to see if anyone can pick out what they think justifies a return here.

https://soundcloud.com/yopauliemusic/ou ... zz-quartet

ORIGINAL JAZZ INSTRUMENTALS are U-R-G-E-N-T-L-Y needed for a bunch of (up-to) $2,000, NON-Exclusive, Direct-to-Music Supervisor placements in a popular HBO TV Series. They’re searching for Mid-to-Up-Tempo Instrumentals that fall within the general stylistic wheelhouse of the following references we got directly from the Music Supervisor:

“Let's Get Lost” by Chet Baker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIoquPMcG_E

“Green's Blues” by Paul Quinichette: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH1vMGqn72A

"Fruit Salad" by Don Byas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMKKVuifKOg

Even though some of the references have vocals in them, they only need Instrumentals for this request! Please submit well-crafted Jazz Instrumentals that are melodically and rhythmically appealing, and generally reflect the vibe, sound, and style of the references above. Your submission should sound like a genuine Jazz Ensemble with top-notch musicianship. If you’re using any virtual instruments, they need to sound incredibly convincing! Any material that sounds stiff, synthetic, or obviously MIDI-driven will not work for this pitch. All submissions should be at least 2 minutes in length and have non-faded, buttoned endings. Do NOT copy the referenced acts or tracks in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a general guide for feel, texture, tone, and vibe.

Note: the all caps urgent need is an interesting choice of words given that it took six weeks to hear back on this one.

[johnnyrowing]

New Dude
New here and not a Jazz expert. So, all that follows is offered with curiosity, interest, and humility. I offer the critique because you asked. Ha! And . . . because I am really trying to get better at interpreting and writing toward listings. Knowing what gets through and what gets rejected (and hopefully you will share why) should help with that.

I don't participate on any other DBs, I have always been a lurker. As such, I really hope not to offend.

Best Guess
When I listen to the other three reference tracks, I eventually feel settled into the song. I start to appreciate the song without really listening to the song. The lead lines feel lyrical and the bands seems to offer support for the melodies. It is a band playing a song.

When I listen to Out The Door, I never feel 100% settled. The opening melody is catchy but not quite lyrical (more like a theme/riff). The song appears to have some musicians that have chops that they want to show off. Again, not a Jazz guy . . . but . . . isn't that something that some styles of Jazz have as a feature? Anyhow, I never feel fully rested in Out The Door. As such, the composition might have too much gravity to be a good fit for film/tv.

As an example, those drum fills at about :08 - super cool - but they attract a lot of attention! There a few other places with those kind of fills. The other songs seem to have fewer fills and be more fluid (in-context) kind of fills. It isn't just the drums. The melody feels more improvised than written - again = cool - but still attracts my attention because I am trying to keep up and guess where the melody line will go next rather than just know.



I'm sure there will be other guesses. In the meantime, I anxiously await.

TL;DR - Out the Door features musicianship over the song and will not fit well with film/tv?

[Telefunkin]

Again, no criticism intended, just trying to guess what could possibly have upset the screener, which means picking out any little details that they might not have liked.
- Too much improv over the 12-bar pattern and not enough of the recurring melodic theme apart from the start and end?
- Over-busy drummer with ride cymbal too far forward?
- Sax not in the same 'space' as rest of band?
Tough, as only the first of the ref links worked for me, but I'd be very interested to know what the reason for a return was.
Cool piece though Paulie and some great sax there!

[Paulie]

Nope, none of that, but thanks for the detailed responses. All feedback is good to me, everyone has their own ears and criteria. Although, in the jazz idiom familiarity with the genre does help.

Stylistically this track is spot on, it matches the genre perfectly. Jazz listings can be tough because improvisation definitely can get in the way of dialog, but the references are all classic jazz as well, so the intended use is probably not under dialog. Trying to play jazz while staying out of the way of potential dialog is like trying to have a persuasive argument while only whispering.

The mix was not mentioned at all, nor was the business of the soloist (it's classic jazz). Keep trying, I'll post later today the reason for the return. Obviously I disagree with it, but Taxi asks us to share our feedback on both forwards and returns. I will say that the reason given is certainly not something I thing a supervisor would think when listening.

Paul

[Len911]

they thought the sax was midi? I don't think so, but I seem to remember that happened to you once before.
I guess it depends, but I thought jazz was the music frequently used under dialogue, or that people chattered during the performance or dined under?

[funsongs]

Karaoke tracks?
Whatever your 'secret' is - seems the simplest not-forwarded reason has nothing to do with whether it's good and/or authentic-sounding...
but, rather, that it is "the right piece" for the client - and, that decision is always out of your control.
Anyway - I'm interested to read, as Paul Harvey would say: "...and now; the REST of the story."

Oh - and also: I'd keep in mind that the Screeners likely want to be both direct and diplomatic - and find the good, even though it's a return.
Still - the return always stings a bit; we all get that, I think.

[andygabrys]

.......I'll post later today the reason for the return. ....

Do tell.

[Paulie]

Sorry for the delay, got stuck doing day gig stuff.

The return was as follows: "This one has a cool loose feel to it, but it almost seems like the instruments are out of time at points. I would try to tighten up the rhythm a bit more."

So, to the attentive listener, there are 2-3 notes in the first verse (melody) where the piano player and sax player are not exactly together. That happens in the jazz world... at least in my East Coast version, maybe not as much in the clean/slick West Coast jazz world. But, I find it hard to believe that a supervisor would notice that, or if so, decide not to use the track because of that specific reason. It just seems like a pretty darned picky reason to reject a track that pretty much nails the genre. It's jazz, loose is ok. And, it's jazz, the melody is just a vehicle to deliver the solos. The drummer is a top call jazz musician in Europe, so I don't think that his time or ability to swing are in question.

If the mix was an issue, that's cool. If the sax playing was too busy for tv use, that's sort of fine (but given the references I think it's not an issue). But to reject a track for something so minute seems a little anal to me.

Peter, yes, I did get a track rejected because my live soprano sax sounded too quantized/midi. I also got a track rejected because my live muted trumpet sounded too midi. You win some, you lose some.

[funsongs]

I thought it 'lacked a groove', myself... but then "it's Jazz"... so, I figured it was meant to sound like that.
Spinal Tap declares that Jazz is music played wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSEQImJnNw

[LamarPecorino]

Sorry Paulie.