Friendly use of songs

[ncc1701]

I'm just full of questions today.Say I have a song that a local band is interested in adding to their set. Should there be some sort of formal agreement spelling out what rights I'm granting, or is it common practice to "give away" songs in the beginning just to get them out there and heard? I'm sure if the band were going to record it, there would be issues to iron out.Anybody have experience with this scenario?

[davewalton]

Quote:I'm just full of questions today.Say I have a song that a local band is interested in adding to their set. Should there be some sort of formal agreement spelling out what rights I'm granting, or is it common practice to "give away" songs in the beginning just to get them out there and heard? I'm sure if the band were going to record it, there would be issues to iron out.Anybody have experience with this scenario?One thing in general... even if you don't receive anything up-front, as the writer of a song you're always the writer of the song and so you're never, or should never, be "giving" anything away. As the writer you're due the writer's share of any royalties from whatever airplay it gets, no matter who or how many people/groups record it.This isn't my area, so I'll leave the specifics to others, but any arrangement between you and anyone else regarding music you've written should always be accompanied by a written agreement that spells everything out. Doesn't have to be a 100-page document, but definitely there should be something that spells out the basics that everyone agrees to and signs in the beginning. If they won't sign a basic agreement in the beginning when nothing is happening, they won't be any more agreeable when there's a lot of money at stake later on.

[mazz]

As far as I understand it, anyone can cover a song live without a written aggreement. When I played covers in the 80s, we never had an aggreement with Michael Jackson, Tom Petty, etc. etc., we just played their songs. Of course, we never claimed to have written any of the songs and just to be sure no one can get away with that in your case, you probably should copyright it. If they want to record it and release it commercially, then a different set of rules/circumstances comes in to play (Google "Harry Fox Agency").The PROs (ASCAP, BMI, etc.) are supposed to license the venues that book live music and then the royalties are distributed to the writers according to whatever voodoo forumla they use to decide who gets paid. I would register the song with your PRO but I'm not sure how you would claim the performances, you might call them to find out.If it were me, I'd let them play the song with the aggreement that they mention your name every time they play it and buy you a drink if you show up at one of their gigs This way you get some exposure for your writing, you can put it on your resume and you get a free drink every once in a while! Have fun,Mazz

[Casey H]

Quote:As far as I understand it, anyone can cover a song live without a written agreement. When I played covers in the 80s, we never had an agreement with Michael Jackson, Tom Petty, etc. etc., we just played their songs. Of course, we never claimed to have written any of the songs and just to be sure no one can get away with that in your case, you probably should copyright it. If they want to record it and release it commercially, then a different set of rules/circumstances comes in to play (Google "Harry Fox Agency").The PROs (ASCAP, BMI, etc.) are supposed to license the venues that book live music and then the royalties are distributed to the writers according to whatever voodoo forumla they use to decide who gets paid. I would register the song with your PRO but I'm not sure how you would claim the performances, you might call them to find out.If it were me, I'd let them play the song with the agreement that they mention your name every time they play it and buy you a drink if you show up at one of their gigs This way you get some exposure for your writing, you can put it on your resume and you get a free drink every once in a while! Have fun,MazzTheoretically, whenever you perform a song publicly, you are supposed to report it the the appropriate PRO and pay the performance royalty for the writers and publishers. So if you are a bar band playing a Tom Petty song, this is theoretically the case. However, this is not usually enforced for smaller venues. The mid to larger size venues that change admission generally comply.A classic case is "Happy Birthday". Restaurants used to do the thing where, on a birthday, the waiters and waitresses would come to your table and sing "Happy Birthday". Most restaurants stopped doing that because it is a public performance and they would be required to pay royalties. So instead, they do another birthday celebration song. Casey

[bc]

Quote:If it were me, I'd let them play the song with the aggreement that they mention your name every time they play it and buy you a drink if you show up at one of their gigs This way you get some exposure for your writing, you can put it on your resume and you get a free drink every once in a while! Didn't see this while I was responding, but I agree 100% -- bcHaving a local club act play your tune is always a good idea. Think about it; it's free promotion for your song. You could even go to the club and witness the audience reaction. If the crowd loves your song the first time the band plays it...you're on to something. Maybe you'll hate the way the band interprets your song, or maybe you'll love it; maybe you'll get an inspiration to make some changes, or write another song. Personally I've had mixed results when other cats play my stuff, but it's always been interesting and fun to witness.Don't get too wrapped up in the, "I gotta get paid for everything," mindset. I've had my songs played at everything from funerals to high school football games and I never worry a second about my writer's royalty. By the way, I've made a very good living from music, most of my life. Dave Mathews, (listener supported music) gave away a lot of music, on-line and by allowing recording at concerts, with the result of making a lot of dough by having one of the most loyal fan bases in the world. Get every band you can to play your songs. Maybe one of them will want to "record" it. Then you can haul out the contract! best,bc

[ncc1701]

Muchas gracias, fellas!

[nomiyah]

Quote:Theoretically, whenever you perform a song publicly, you are supposed to report it the the appropriate PRO and pay the performance royalty for the writers and publishers. A few years ago I was working as a promoter and we were the ones required to report to the PROs and required to pay. We were supposed to tell the PRO who was booked, not what songs were performed. The artists were not required to report on performances, except to register songs they'd written. Not sure if it's still like that.

[nomiyah]

Quote:I'm just full of questions today.Say I have a song that a local band is interested in adding to their set. Should there be some sort of formal agreement spelling out what rights I'm granting, or is it common practice to "give away" songs in the beginning just to get them out there and heard? I'm sure if the band were going to record it, there would be issues to iron out.Anybody have experience with this scenario?I do have experience with this. A song of mine was performed and released on a CD by a national band (not local) without my permission or any contract. I'm currently working with an attorney to deal with it so I can't mention names. Basically it comes down to getting songwriter credit on the copyright and on the CD jacket and to negotiate an upfront fee for using it. If you can, it's much easier and more pleasant to get this information in writing first, rather than having to go the legal route later. John Braheny has some really good contract templates in his books. But this doesn't mean you have to charge them money upfront, that may be enough to get them not to use the song, so it's probably better to be flexible about that, like you mentioned. But do get something in writing and you'll feel better in case it goes somewhere.

[Casey H]

Quote:Quote:Theoretically, whenever you perform a song publicly, you are supposed to report it the the appropriate PRO and pay the performance royalty for the writers and publishers. A few years ago I was working as a promoter and we were the ones required to report to the PROs and required to pay. We were supposed to tell the PRO who was booked, not what songs were performed. The artists were not required to report on performances, except to register songs they'd written. Not sure if it's still like that.Hi NomiWere they playing covers? Casey

[edteja]

Also, if they record it, and you have never had it recorded commercially, they need your permission, not just a mechanical license. Jerry Jeff Walker played Mr. Bojangles on a radio program before he recorded it. Another band heard it and thought it was a recording, so they recorded it, but then had to pull the record until after he released his version (although he could have given them a license). After the first commercial recording the license is compulsory--you can't control who records it as long as they pay.I have never heard of reporting to PROs a song list for performance, though. I can't even find any such reporting form on the ASCAP site. The venue pays for the right to play from the PRO catalog and the PRO bases the division of the money on other stats, I believe.