great Presidential speech

[jjktunes]

If you did't mean that towards me I'm sorry Mojo.Glen I am for welfare programs too, but I think you should pass a drug test before you are eligible. I know people that are in better shape than me on welfare and spend what little money they do have on booze and drugs and let there kids go hungry.

[jjktunes]

Sept 20, 2009, 9:44am, ggalen wrote:Mojobone.I, too. am baffled as to how so many fundamentalist followers of Christ ended up being so staunchly against welfare programs for the poor and sick.It seems more logical that people who try to pattern their lives after Christ's example would be all about hanging out with the "least among us", the prostitutes, drug addicts and dealers (who are reviled like the tax collectors of Christ's time). But I don't see that. I don't see them championing universal health care for all.When and how did this happen?Today it seems to be the liberal , left wing Christian congregations that are all for "social justice", welfare programs, food shelves. Women's programs and shelters. And universal healthcare.Well, there is the Salvation Army, which is conservative. But the agenda of the Far Right Christians seems to be just about sexual and abortion issues, and as low taxes as possible. Oh, and international military supremacy . That, too.I dunno. It baffles me.How did such a large portion of the Church become affiliated with the conservative business establishment? No disrespect intended here for Christians. I am just asking here, wanting to understand how this current situation came to be, and when.Maybe some strong conservative Christians here can tell me how this works.Glen I think the main thing that keeps the two parties separated is the abortion and the gay rights issues. I'm not sure why you think that true christians don't want to help the needy, I know my church is always helping the less fortunate in many ways. I don't think you can accurately link the "Christian" with the "Republican". I speak for my self when I say It would be hard for me to vote for a leader if he is not pro life.

[ggalen]

"I speak for my self when I say It would be hard for me to vote for a leader if he is not pro life."I understand.But that also means that if there are two candidates running for President, and one is truly gifted at many critical aspects of the job but is pro choice, and the other is well-meaning but not very talented overall...The less capable candidate will get essentially all of the conservative Christian vote as long as he is simply against abortion.

[mojobone]

****NOTE: PREVIOUS POST NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR****Arbeit Macht Frei was the motto hung on signs over the entrance to forced labor concentration camps by the Nazis, and this bit o' nostalgia relates to the thinking of some leading lights of the neoconservative movement. They like to characterize the Nazis as socialists, certainly the word "socialist" was right there in the name of their party, but, like much other Nazi propaganda, it was a lie. (did you know George Orwell worked for the British propaganda ministry?) The Nazis were Fascists, which is what wealthy industrialists like Henry Ford admired most about them. Ford worshipped efficiency, and believed all his workers were lazy, shiftless and wanted to steal from him, and undoubtedly resented paying his workers anything at all, which is at odds with his greatest innovation; paying his workers enough to be able to afford his product. (this was probably an accidental by-product of his company's ability to undercut competitors' prices) Any case, the theory is that if you give a man a fish, he'll be back tomorrow, asking for another fish.I don't advocate welfare or any other benefits for the able-bodied and mentally fit; if the employment market has no jobs to suit their current skills, they should be re-trained, so that they can be happy and productive members of society; we can give 'em food stamps and subsistence, counseling as to which skills they need and educational assistance to get those skills that are necessary to the new economy, but there's little doubt the whole process would be more efficient if we put them in camps while they're being re-educated.

[ggalen]

Here's the issue.Below is the natural distribution of any ability in the human popuation.In the middle is "average ability". And most people are in there.To the right is greater ability, and there are less and less people there at higher ability levels.To the LEFT is lower ability, and there are less and less people there as well as the lack of ability gets worse and worse.BUT...we will always have people in the "red zone".What do we do with them? Let them starve, or just go without because they don't have the skill or drive to learn?You cannot train these people to be greatly skilled. They will always have less ability and skill and be naturally less capable of earning a good living...AND THEY ARE GOOD PEOPLE.What do you do?

[jjktunes]

Sept 20, 2009, 10:31am, ggalen wrote:"I speak for my self when I say It would be hard for me to vote for a leader if he is not pro life."I understand.But that also means that if there are two candidates running for President, and one is truly gifted at many critical aspects of the job but is pro choice, and the other is well-meaning but not very talented overall...The less capable candidate will get essentially all of the conservative Christian vote as long as he is simply against abortion.At that fork in the road I would just have to pray and follow my heart. I see exactly what you are saying Glen. There are good and bad on both sides, to bad the moral issues sometimes are split down the middle making it harder to make those choices. George Washington warned us a long time ago that we should not form these parties, it would divide us as a country."I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally." George Washington

[mojobone]

Sept 20, 2009, 8:38am, jjktunes wrote:http://www.gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/ ... e.pdfAfter reading this I don't see a lot that's keeping us from being on the same page. Looks like we want the same thing, it's just that one of us don't want the government getting in between point a and point b. I'm not here to argue and be a smart a!!, and call people idiots or tell them they are stupid. I just spent nine days at Vanderbilt Hospital here in Nashville with my little girl who was very sick. I saw babies and teenagers that broke my heart because of the shape they were in. The day my wife and I took my little girl home we walked past a few kid's rooms knowing unless a miracle takes place they want be going home, what mixed emotions I had inside me, I was thankful and sad at the same time. I think we all could agree that whoever makes the final decision on this bill they should have to see the same picture I did during my stay at the hospital. These are the innocent ones, they can't help it if they have dead beat parents that are able to work but choose to sit on their fat lazy butts and put their kids health in jeopardy. I just hope that in the end it will be better for all of us American citizens.I read that, and much of it sounds real good; I'm jes' not sure the author can be trusted, since he was caught lying to newspaper reporters about Canada's health system."In August 2009, Blunt stated in two separate newspaper interviews that, because he was 59 years old, "In either Canada or Great Britain, if I broke my hip, I couldn't get it replaced."[17] In fact, however, more than 60 percent of the hip replacements done in Canada and England are on patients age 65 or older." from Wikipedia

[mojobone]

Glen, the thing most people miss about that bell curve you posted, and I was guilty of this myself, at one point, is that the people in the red zone are trainable, they can learn, but it takes longer and is more expensive. The difficulty is in determining the point of diminishing returns, if you take my meaning.

[ggalen]

mojobone,I didn't miss it. You can train them to move to the right, but only so far.So you will still always have a significant number of people who just can't make it, even with training.That's the fallacy of the "everyone go to college" idea. Not everyone can do that.And you have to decide what you are going to do for those folks.Because computers and manufacturing robotics are taking over the factory jobs that only require manual labor skills.

[mojobone]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 0.htmlSome folks will read the above article and conclude that it means their dog doesn't love them. (this might be true) But I think it might be relevant to our discussion because of what it says about competition and social intelligence.