guitar amp modeling plugins TEST - thoughts?

[Mmichaelis]

Hello!

I am a guitar player and rock songwriter. The last 10 years, I've had this feeling like I should get into the digital world of amp and FX modeling; I know the technology is getting better. But each time I've tried to have an open mind and experimented, I've come away feeling disappointed and always concluded that modeling just isn't "there yet." As a result I've always gone full analog.

I'm now in another phase of experimenting as I've seen dozens of reviews and testimonials from guitar players that write for film/TV that modeling plugins are totally the way to go. I've done some experimenting with BIAS FX2 and Slate Digital's TH-U. In the below sample, the 1st take is BIAS FX 2, the 2nd is Slate's TH-U, and the 3rd is all analog, the way I normally do things. This is quick and dirty for analyzing the subtleties of the sound only; please forgive the playing. Also, there is no post processing whatsoever.

https://soundcloud.com/matt-michaelis/test-amp-modeling

With this quick sample, I modeled the rhythm guitars as an overdriven Fender Bassman, and the lead guitar as an overdriven Marshall; and that's exactly how I recorded the analog. I'm just not convinced that at least with these two plugins that digital modeling even compares. I tried for a while to get the 2 plugins to sound remotely similar to the real thing; and either I don't know the subtleties of the plugins, or these just are not effective modeling tools.

Typically, I have noticed that amp and FX modeling for guitars is very realistic for reverbs, delays, and modulations; but for overdrives/distortions, they just aren't even in the ball park. I think this round of experimenting has been no exception.

Do you guitar players agree? What plugins/software have you found that do a great job at modeling amps and FX? Someday, I want to get a Kemper profiler, but those are just too dang expensive.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Matt Michaelis
https://mattmichaelismusic.com

[Ted]

Hey I tried your soundcloud link but it's not working.


A few years ago I got a little Yamaha THR10 and it's all I played around the house. I love those amps so much. I have some decent tube amps but they're just too loud for me and I never play them. I'd rather play the Yamaha.

In my DAW I've had problems getting a decent overdrive from the stock plugins. I never figured out what causes it, but I get horrible noise no matter what I do. So this year I went on a search for a good plugin. I started out with Guitar Rig-- the overdrive sounds are good, but I really like the ambient clean effects sounds in Guitar RIg.

Last week I got Amplitube Max on sale-- I really like some of the amp plugins in that-- The Mesa Boogies, the Oranges, the Soldano and the Engl Powerball-- off the top of my head sound particularly good.

Today I got some plugins from Waves including GTR3-- I haven't really messed with it much, so I don't know if it's decent or not-- and I also got their Paul Reed Smith modeled "Supermodels" series. They say that you need to have active pickups or run your guitar through a buffer box before your interface to get the proper sound out of these amps-- so I don't know. They sounded decent for the time I spent with them.

Last week I downloaded a free trial of the Neural DSP Archetype Nolly amp plugin-- and to my ears and fingers, it was far and away the best overdriven amp plugin I've tried. The cleans were good too.

I think the experience with plugins is they can sound like what you hear on a record, when the tone is coming out of the monitors-- but what you hear doesn't FEEL like sititng in front of the cabinet of a big old tube amp or whatever blowing your hair back. The Nolly felt the most like sitting in front of a real amp of any that I've tried. There are so many different overdriven presets in that plugin and they are all so different and so good. I mean, you can tell when you hit a pinch harmonic and bend a string-- if it's got a real feel to it or not-- and this one passes that test.
They have several amp rigs on the Neural website-- you really have to give these amps a try-- they'll give you a free 14 day trial. Really pretty looking GUIs on these plugins too-- very nice design aesthetic, visually.

[Mmichaelis]

Hey I tried your soundcloud link but it's not working.

sorry, it was a private link; I reuploaded to public: https://soundcloud.com/matt-michaelis/test-amp-modeling

[Mmichaelis]

Last week I downloaded a free trial of the Neural DSP Archetype Nolly amp plugin-- and to my ears and fingers, it was far and away the best overdriven amp plugin I've tried. The cleans were good too.

Thanks for the pointer, never heard of 'em! Will check out. Thanks for your other tips as well, I'll experiment with those too! Yeah, I think you're right; modeling in general probably sounds fake to only the people that have experienced the real thing.

[lesmac]

You need to gain match your samples. The analog version is louder than the 2 emulations.
My 2 cents:
There are variables like resonances of your particular cab/tubes/mic/room etc.
Pushing air does something.
You have to work with EQ, ambience, saturation or whatever to help the amp emulations. Particularly taming the high end bite.
Emulations are great for the amps you don't have.

[Mmichaelis]

You have to work with EQ, ambience, saturation or whatever to help the amp emulations. Particularly taming the high end bite.

Thanks for the thoughts! Working with EQ and saturation makes sense; any pointers with working with "ambience?" Maybe adding reverb or other types of presence type effects?

[lesmac]

Thanks for the thoughts! Working with EQ and saturation makes sense; any pointers with working with "ambience?" Maybe adding reverb or other types of presence type effects?

From what I can remember from when I used to do live gigs, I was always tweaking my amp and pedals to get the right sound and tone. The ambience thing is about the room you put the amp in. Playing the same venue with a small crowd one night and a full house on another night called for a different approach on each occasion. Maybe a really short delay to thicken or a reverb to darken or adjusting the EQ on the amp to compliment the overdrive pedal [ and visa verser], it was done on the fly. You have to tweak and tweak until you are inspired and then play something great. The settings can be as variable as your mood. I must admit I was never a real gear head, I just tried to get the best sound with what I had.
I remember once playing a small festival doing a country gig and the backline amp I plugged into was some insanely overdriven beast that wouldn't let you play 2 strings in unison without taking off with nasty sounding harmonics. Stepping down from the stage a guitar player who I greatly respect was asked which amp he wanted to plug into for their set and I heard him say the amp I had used would be fine. I should have turned back and warned him but the flow of traffic sort of didn't allow me. I could tell by the look on his face he wasn't having a great time with it but he also made the amp sound ok. So it's all rather fluid. You have to be able to interact with the amp sim in real time to be inspired by it and you may need to record low latency through cans or your monitors. It's similar to recording vocals- it's all about the mix that the talent hears.
I use Scuffam Amps by S-Gear which I favour most for a straight up clean sound [https://honestampsimreviews.com/2018/12 ... am-s-gear/], Guitar Rig and Waves GTR [CLA Guitars too]. I still don't "know' 1/50th of what they can do. Scrolling through a lot of the presets can be nearly as soul destroying as auditioning drum grooves! Sometimes you can find youTube videos with good presets. The first thing I'll to do with VI amps is to take that high fizz/harshness off. I always low cut below the low E string at 80Hz and often much higher up. I usually par for the course take out some 350. Its good to go through valves and transformers if you can when you Di your guitar or run the track through some analog outboard. If you have laid down a ripping track though that's often all that counts.
The nicest tones I have heard from a recording guitarist friend are from his Kemper Profiler. It could be down to his taste as well though.

[Mmichaelis]

Last week I downloaded a free trial of the Neural DSP Archetype Nolly amp plugin-- and to my ears and fingers, it was far and away the best overdriven amp plugin I've tried. The cleans were good too.

Holy smokes, I got my trial of Archetype Nolly today and I am BLOWN AWAY! Thanks for pointing me in this direction! Everything sounds fantastic, I just wish they had a bit more diversity in their amp modeling!! But it is quite impressive!

[Mmichaelis]

Thanks for the thoughts! Working with EQ and saturation makes sense; any pointers with working with "ambience?" Maybe adding reverb or other types of presence type effects?

So it's all rather fluid. You have to be able to interact with the amp sim in real time to be inspired by it and you may need to record low latency through cans or your monitors. It's similar to recording vocals- it's all about the mix that the talent hears.

very wise words from a pro player!!

[lesmac]

by Mmichaelis » Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:41 pm
lesmac wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:14 pm
Thanks for the thoughts! Working with EQ and saturation makes sense; any pointers with working with "ambience?" Maybe adding reverb or other types of presence type effects?
So it's all rather fluid. You have to be able to interact with the amp sim in real time to be inspired by it and you may need to record low latency through cans or your monitors. It's similar to recording vocals- it's all about the mix that the talent hears.
very wise words from a pro player!!

Nah! I'm just a basher. This was the guy who played after me at that gig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DydikjlRHSQ

He is the pro. I think he has moved his family to Nashville now. You wouldn't find a more humble person.

He always made feel like either cutting off all my fingers or going home and playing my guitar like crazy.

and another- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSW-amWSwNE