Guitar intonation

[jh]

Hi, So... my (electric) guitar is driving me nuts.I´ve carefully fine tuned it but still the lower notesare way out of tune. For example the low E is nearly 20 cents out of tune when I play an F or anything below the ninth fret or so. On the twelth fret it´s "perfectly" in tune. The upper strings are quite consistently in tune all the way.My friend is a guitar tech and he said the only wayis to sand the frets, but I don´t like the idea...Any tips?Thanks,- JH

[fullbirdmusic]

He's right. Look at the frets with no strings - are they flat? If so, that means there's too much of the string touching them in the wrong places (which is why setting it up correctly is not working). Don't worry though, it's a standard procedure. Take it to the shop and have it done, though. If you do it and mess it up, you'll have to replace many if not all of them and possibly mess up the fingerboard in the process. It's inexpensive and it's called either re-crowning or re-dressing the frets. Standard procedure, so don't fret - no pun intended! I'm such a dork... Wes

[jh]

Hi Wes,Quote:Look at the frets with no strings - are they flat?Nope They are almost as good as new, very little wear. The guitar is only 14 years old after all - JH

[slideboardouts]

More than likely it needs a fret dressing or leveling. Or as your friend said you need to "sand the frets." However, that term is a bit misleading - do not think that it is an easy job where you just whip out some sand paper and go to town. You need to take it to a professional, and ask around about recommendations. Don't just go to the nearest guitar center and have it done. I have seen a lot of poor work and incorrect diagnosis's come out of the local mega stores in my town. If your friend is nearby and you trust his work, take it to him.Like Wes said, it is a very routine maintenance procedure with guitars. Depending on the frets and how you personally like your guitar set up, how often you need to have it done can vary. But after 14 years it is definitely a bit over due, no matter what all the variables are One other tip I'll add is that when you go to do this, get a FULL fret dressing. Some people like to cheap out and just have the tech do a "half dressing" so to speak. Have the entire fretboard done, even if you think you only need the first position to be leveled out.-Steve

[fullbirdmusic]

Right. As Steve says, some folks will try to half-ass the work and only do the so-called "problem frets" and leave the others alone - NOT a good idea and NOT a professional job. If the frets are negatively affecting your sound in this way, it needs to be done. Nobody likes to set-up their axe only to have strings played out of tune all over the neck. Shoot man, my '72 Tele (reissue!) is only 2 or 3 years old and mine needs this treatment B A D. So 14 years is a bit overdue

[jdhogg]

Couple of q's1. Have you changed your strings recently.2. Double check. Tune the low E then play the octave E on the same string. Are they both in tune? ie is your intonation correct?3. Is this recent? 4. have you changed to a different gauge string?5. Nut is too high?

[jdhogg]

my friend got a D18 and the nut was way up.He took it to the "tech" who did virtually nothing for his set up and nut file fee.I told him to take it back and make the useless ass do it correctly.As slidebo said there are a lot of crap bullshitting techs out there.If you say there is no wear then more info is needed for a correct diagnosis of the stringed patient imho

[mojobone]

There are three basic fret maintenance/correction procedures short of a full or partial refret. Fret dressing is basically a clean and polish, crowning is a re-shaping of the tops of one or more (either all or just the frets that need it) frets, leveling involves grinding down as many frets as necessary to match the lowest frets. (usually done to eliminate buzzing if and when neck warp issues have been ruled out as the cause) None of these procedures should affect the intonation much, (though crowning can be done in such a manner as to correct intonation, if there's enough fret remaining, but only up to a point) -unless the wear is severe, in which case a partial refret will almost certainly be required. If one or more frets are so low as to cause severe buzzing, the higher frets would require a LOT of grinding, so a partial refret saves the fret material remaining. A reputable luthier may do some combination of all three (plus a partial refret) in cases where wear is excessive AND uneven. (and many luthiers will do some combination of the three and bill it as one procedure-crown, dress and level, or some such) Tuning issues as severe as described may also require a new nut-in fact, I'd look there for the source of the tuning problems before addressing the fretwear issue. The nut can sometimes be chipped away or the slot enlarged beneath the string if a guitar has fallen forward on its face-a much more likely source of tuning difficulties and a cheaper and easier fix. It's also possible for the problem to be related to string gauge, if you're using light top heavy bottom sets. A twist or warp in the neck is also more likely to cause bad intonation than simple fretwear. Improper truss rod adjustment is another likely culprit. I would shop for a luthier who's busy and Buzz Feiten certified.

[jh]

Thanks for the responses!The repair would probably cost more than the guitar is worthso I don´t know...Quote:A twist or warp in the neck is also more likely to cause bad intonation than simple fretwear. Improper truss rod adjustment is another likely culprit.Oh... That´s gotta be it. I just remembered that a few years ago the strings were buzzing and my friend told me to tighten the truss rod...(or was it vice versa )Any advice with that? (it can´t get much worse, right? )- JH

[mojobone]

In my neck o' the woods, a complete fret job, even with a partial refret, is under $200. (helps to know the right guys, though-my current and former bass players are both luthiers )You'll want to sight along the neck to try to determine if there's too much bow or relief in the neck-too much relief, you loosen the strings first, then tighten the truss rod-righty tighty, lefty loosey, no more than a quarter to half a turn at a time, re-tune to pitch, and give the neck overnight to settle, then check again. Whatever you do, don't force the truss rod if it doesn't turn; take it to a pro. Relief can be measured using a straightedge and a good ruler, the procedure can be found in Dan Erlewine's "How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great".If there's any back-bow, the guitar will be pretty much unplayable, so you'll more likely need to tighten, but some guitars play better with a little more relief, and don't like being adjusted flat, so YMMV. If you have any doubts, take it to a pro. More than likely if it's not the nut, you have a twist in the neck-the clue is that the bass strings are out and the trebles are pretty much okay. If it's twisted or warped, it may still be fixable, but your luthier will have to apply steam and a jig, which can affect the glues used in building your neck-it's for experts only, and pretty expensive to do on a set-neck instrument. If you're not confident in your ability to evaluate the neck's straightness, take it to a pro.