Help me define success

[nomiyah]

What can an unknown songwriter expect to earn...For a song on a hit movie or tv soundtrack?For a song on a movie or tv soundtrack that isn't a hit?For a contract with a music library or publisher?For a song on an artist's hit CD?For a song on an artist's CD that isn't a hit?For licensing?For royalties?Would anyone be willing to tell me actual dollar amounts? Thank you.Nomi

[hummingbird]

Hey Nomi... a good start would be to pick up John Braheny's "The Craft & The Business of Songwriting" As I understand it, except for CD sales, which have a specific # of cents per unit payable to the songwriter, everything else depends on the agreement negotiated, and the context in which the work is used.We were told at the Rally that it's crucial for songwriters to understand the lingo of the business. I think you'd also find some great articles on Taxi.com on this very subject.Another thing they said is, since the use of one song may bring in anything from a few cents to hundreds of dollars, the best way to make a living at doing music is by having a cataloque of songs/music out there working for you in different capacities. It's like being a freelance writer ... that mag publishes you, but you get $75 for the column, you ace a spread in a big mag and get $1.00 per word... you just keep putting it out.Personally I define success as being able to get up every day and do music. Not that making money isn't nice, but I believe in living my passion - that means everything to me.cheersHummin'bird

[matto]

I'd be happy to give you actual dollar figures as far as I know them if you can better define some of your questions:Quote:For a song on a hit movie or tv soundtrack?For a song on a movie or tv soundtrack that isn't a hit?Are you talking about the soundtrack album here? Or just use in a movie/tv show. License fee? Mechanical or performance royalties? Or all of the above?Quote:For a song on an artist's hit CD?For a song on an artist's CD that isn't a hit?Album cut or single? Style of music?Quote:For licensing?For royalties?Licensing or royalties for what kind of use? And which royalties, mechanical, performace, print...?If you can't answer these questions, you should take Vikki's advice and read up on the lingo first.Thanks,matto

[hummingbird]

I just recommended this book on another thread....Everything You'd Better Know About the Record Industry http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 79-1046439

[nomiyah]

Hummingbird and Matto,Thanks so much for reading and answering.Actually Hummingbird, I own and have read both books you mentioned more than once and I recommend them often too. I understand the different means of earning income from music. And I certainly can relate to musical success from an artistic perspective.What I was asking was some specifics. If one of my songs is used in a tv show in the background and it plays once or with a few reruns, how much money could I expect to get from a licensing fee and performance royalties? If my song was used in a blockbuster movie, what's the range I could expect for license fee, performance and mechanical royalties from theater to cable to dvd to tv? What if an artist recorded my song on an album in the Billboard Pop 100? What if my song was the hit?Matto, I realize how complex this business is and that there are so many factors it's hard to put a fixed number on anything. But if you could give me some examples I'd appreciate it. I know you've had quite a few successes, will you tell me what you made in real numbers and give me some idea?Nomi

[nomiyah]

Hummingbird,At your suggestion I went back again to the Taxi articles. There really is a wealth of info at http://www.taxi.com/faq/index.html.Nomi

[nomiyah]

My question remains unanswered. Anyone willing to disclose actual numbers from actual deals?Nomi

[53mph]

Asking people to disclose actual numbers is a bit rude don't you think?Like asking a woman how old she is I'll give you an example of how tricky the earning curve can be based on my megre experiences.I wrote a song. I own 100% of the writing and recording. My song was picked up by THE major radio station in the UK, in London. It was A-Listed and played a minimum of 10 times a day for approximately 2 month.That should earn me alot of money, right?Now comes the maths.It was released by an independent label. I didn't have a Publishing deal so how was I going to collect the money?Someone pointed me in the direction of the PRS (performing rights society) which is a collection agency for artists without publishing deals. It's a good agency, I'm not knocking it.But....1. For them THE London radio counted as a regional station (reduced payment). 2. They paid artists based on 'example playlists' supplied to them by the stations....and they only based payments by screening 1 playlist per 2 weeks (so if your not on the list you don't get paid)...in the end I had to supply them with evidence of airing (ie playlists for every week from the relevant radio station) before they paid me anything...basically I did their work for them.At the end of all that I got a few hundred pounds for probably 1000 plays on radio and alot of chasing.But...Another song of mine was played once or twice on Radio 1 (the national radio station) and I got paid over £100 per play (after I sent the playlist to the PRS).And....my song was also used twice on Sky Sports (it was the backing music during the highlights of a Uraguay soccer match), I got paid £300 for each time.Basically, if you get your song performed by a major artist on national radio around the world, you can earn a packet.....but make sure you get a decent publisher behind you. They will take a percentage of the money you earn so you will only get a percentage....but a percentage of a fortune is better than a percentage of nothing.I once had a chart of how the payments were divided by the PRS. It depends on everything from the popularity of the TV channel to the type of Satelitte/Cable channel. For example Sky Sports 2 pays less than Sky Sports 1 but pays more than the Shopping Channel If your songs on National Radio you get paid a packet. If it's on a local station you'll probably get nothing. If it's on a station abroad....good luck.If your song has a common title (Can't stop Loving You) you may never see any payment because often the radio and TV stations submit the title of the song to the PRS (or similar agency) and forget to put the performers name.....they won't include the writing credits. The PRS will then compare the names against a database of names they have and if there are 20 entries the money ususally goes into an unclaimed pool of cash (also called Christmas bonus )It's a different system with Library music. That system is more user friendly, as it's based on catalogue numbers etc..I don't know about films but I think it depends from project to project.Now....don't ask me how old I am!

[matto]

Quote:My question remains unanswered. Anyone willing to disclose actual numbers from actual deals?NomiTsk tsk tsk let's not be so darn impatient... This is gonna require a rather lengthy response for it to be of any use to anybody...my real work has to take precedence over handing out free advice on the internet; or pretty soon I won't have any "actual numbers" to disclose anymore... matto

[johnnydean1]

nomiyah,would you like to tell us about your finances?J.