Help with a mix

[bacanador]

Hello thereAfter a lot of tweaking and getting nowhere with a mix I am trying to do. I thought I'd ask my fellow taxi members.I have this tune called "spinning", and I have a problem achieving the best levels for bass, kick, guitarI want all of them to sound powerful, but haven't been satisfied with any of the mixes I've done. The latest mix is on my profilewww.taxi.com/menoclick on spinning and have a listenThe bass here is overpowering, specially when it plays G, I have tried eq, compression, but it looses BIG sound I want for it.Any help is appreciatedJose

[watksco]

Aug 4, 2009, 9:59am, bacanador wrote:I want all of them to sound powerful, but haven't been satisfied with any of the mixes I've done. The latest mix is on my profileI think it's damn near impossible to get all of the individual instruments to sound BIG. What I think you need to do is pull the focus back a bit and get the mix to sound BIG. I read an interesting article by some famous mix engineer - he was saying that only ONE thing in the mix can be big, and that that was the secret to a BIG mix. In the case of this song it would most probably be the guitar/vocal combo (I know that's two things but if you group them together...anyway)I only listened on laptop speakers, but it was all sounding pretty together. I couldn't hear the bass.Aug 4, 2009, 9:59am, bacanador wrote:The bass here is overpowering, specially when it plays G, I have tried eq, compression, but it looses BIG sound I want for it.The 'overwhelming' could be more a function of the listening space than the actual bass itself (or a bit of both). Getting back to what I was saying before - I think bass should sound big inconjuction with kick/guitar in rock - when it's linked to these things it grows muscles - if you isolate it and make it HUGE - then put it back into the mix it will overwhelm as you've discussed.Anyway - just some thoughtsCheers,Scott

[chriscarter]

I will admit that I didn't listen in the studio, but it didn't really sound like certain frequencies in the bass were jumping out. Perhaps your room isn't properly treated and is 'fooling' you.As for making it sound big.... with rock records the BIG is in the midrange and everything flows from there. With respect to the bass,... bass usually sounds big when it's really blending with the guitars. On this song it's not really blending with the guitars. If I were mixing this song I'd work on the rhythm guitar sound first and get that a little more ballsy, and then blend in the bass and get it to punch with the guitar.One complicated factor is that the bass doesn't have a lot of balls to it. That may be a production decision, but it does complicate it a bit. I don't know how the actual bass track sounds without processing, but if this record came to me and I felt like it didn't have enough attitude, I might reamp it, use an amp sim, or run it through a good transformer based DI/pre and crank it.... or something to put a little hair on it.But again, focus on the midrange and the bass/guitar blend first. I hope that helps and I hope I didn't sound too critical, it's a good song and the mix sounds pretty good for a demo so far.

[bacanador]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions. Quote:I think it's damn near impossible to get all of the individual instruments to sound BIG. What I think you need to do is pull the focus back a bit and get the mix to sound BIGI guess this is my main problem I have to make a compromise, and decide which very few instruments to take over the mix and when.Quote: Perhaps your room isn't properly treated and is 'fooling' you.I guess the bass problem could be my room, somehow amplifies it a lot when G is played on the bass. Will listen through different systems.Quote:But again, focus on the midrange and the bass/guitar blend first. I hope that helps and I hope I didn't sound too critical, it's a good song and the mix sounds pretty good for a demo so far. I guess I'll re-record the bass, I soloed the track and I find that I am not happy with the original track.As far as the guitars, I ended up removing some low end because of the same issue and that is what might make it sound thin.I will follow your advice Chris, and you didn't sound too critical I am looking to improve this because I am not happy and you have given me some pointers.My big problem with this tune is that it doesn't sound how I pictured it in my head, when we play live this tune it has been a favorite, however online reviews, reviews from friends (the same ones that love the live version), taxi reviews tell me this recording lacks something, it is OK but doesn't stand out, boring, etc, etc..Its driving me nuts

[wings]

On a side note, I like IRQ10. Cool piece!!~wings~

[chriscarter]

Aug 5, 2009, 6:08am, bacanador wrote:My big problem with this tune is that it doesn't sound how I pictured it in my head, when we play live this tune it has been a favorite, however online reviews, reviews from friends (the same ones that love the live version), taxi reviews tell me this recording lacks something, it is OK but doesn't stand out, boring, etc, etc..Its driving me nutsI hope you don't hate me for this, but it's lacking the heart/soul/mojo. It's very 'clinical'. Like you focused a lot on nailing every part, but in the process forgot to put the emotion in. This is a REALLY common problem. The best records I mix are very focused on the emotion part, more so than the technical. When I get mixes that are more technical, I really have to work all kinds of magic to put some emotion into them during the mix (luckily, I've very experienced with this! lol).Hope that helps.

[bacanador]

Quote:On a side note, I like IRQ10. Cool piece!!Thanks, that is more of a prog rock instrumenal piece, it has been forwarded a few times. Not too many listings for it latelyQuote:I hope you don't hate me for this, but it's lacking the heart/soul/mojo. It's very 'clinical'. Like you focused a lot on nailing every part, but in the process forgot to put the emotion in. This is a REALLY common problem. The best records I mix are very focused on the emotion part, more so than the technical. When I get mixes that are more technical, I really have to work all kinds of magic to put some emotion into them during the mix (luckily, I've very experienced with this! lol).Hope that helps.Of course I don't hate you man. I can take criticism, constructive and honest criticism only helps me improve, you have pointed out something very important that I've been able to identify myself on someone else's music, but not on my own.I guess instead of tweaking and forcing this thing to work I should re-record it. For example The part where we sing "Fire I'm spinning Fire I'm spinning", I really want it to stand out and it feels dead as well. I am probably to close to it to make good decisions at this point

[watksco]

I'm with Chris - it lacks some energy. There is a bunch of great ideas there. I'd be opening up more in the chorus (guitars) - it's a little too controlled form me. It needs that lift. You guys can really play - just need to feel it (lyric?) more.Scott

[mojobone]

I would try recording the drums, bass and guitar together (simultaneously) if possible. Do five or six takes 'til you get one that has the energy you're looking for, then add overdubs.Otherwise, maybe mix from the drums up-get them to sound great first, then fit the guitar and bass around 'em. (the drums sound the closest to being all the way right as is, so make 'em the foundation) Make the bass slightly pointier and use low end from the kick to fill it out-buss and compress the bass and kick together, set the compressor so the bass and kick cause the whole mix to pump jes' ever so slightly. (or have just the bass and kick compressor pump slightly by itself) You might could try some overall mix buss compression to glue it all together. The "spinning" line in the rt channel needs to be compressed and EQ'd a little brighter for intelligibility. Nice guitar solo! The delay effect on the lead vocal just before the last chorus fades out a bit too quickly, I'd turn up the feedback knob. (maybe automate it and pan the echoes)Keep at it, the track has a lot of potential!

[bacanador]

Thanks for all the great advice, will re-record, maybe speed up the tempo a little, when comparing to the live version, I see there is a huge difference in the tempo of the song.Mojobone thans for the mixing tips, will follow your advice.