I Need 10 USB Ports!

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jdstamper
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I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by jdstamper » Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:44 am

I'll be buying a new PC soon, and when I added up the number of USB Ports I'll need, it came out to 5 USB2 (or better) + 5 USB3.

Why? I want to use 3 external drives, 2 wireless keyboard/mouse combos, an audio interface, ILok .... etc etc ... it all adds up to lots of USB

So most PCs don't have enough USB ports for all this (unless you go with a real beefy tower, which I'm trying to get away from) ... so I assume many people are using USB hubs or docking stations of some kind. How's that working out for you? Any recommendations on which hubs to buy?

Thanks! Jim
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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by BradGray » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:05 am

Interesting question.

Looks like there's motherboards out there that have a ton of USB ports, some close to ten w/ 5 USB 3. However, you're going to pay a premium for that. The question I'd ask, would be why so many external drives? They will work over USB, but will be slower than inside the machine directly attached via motherboard.

You could consider a tower, with empty slots, and buy additional PCI cards with the additional USB ports that you need.

Cheers,
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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by RPaul » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:49 pm

jdstamper wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:44 am
I'll be buying a new PC soon, and when I added up the number of USB Ports I'll need, it came out to 5 USB2 (or better) + 5 USB3.

Why? I want to use 3 external drives, 2 wireless keyboard/mouse combos, an audio interface, ILok .... etc etc ... it all adds up to lots of USB

So most PCs don't have enough USB ports for all this (unless you go with a real beefy tower, which I'm trying to get away from) ... so I assume many people are using USB hubs or docking stations of some kind. How's that working out for you? Any recommendations on which hubs to buy?
My current system, which I built in something like late 2014, uses an ASUS X-99 DELUXE motherboard, and it's got 10 USB3 (with backward compatibility for 2) ports on the rear panel, plus 4 USB 3/2 ports at the mid-board for front panel support. I think, however, that there are actually some built-in USB hubs that are expanding the total number of ports. They way the specs describe the configuration is:

Intel X99 Express Chipset - supports ASUS USB 3.0 Boost
- 4 x USB 3.0/2.0 ports at mid-board for front panel support
- 6 x USB 2.0/1.1 ports (4 ports at mid-board, 4 ports at rear panel)

ASMedia USB 3.0 controller - support ASUS USB 3.0 Boost
- 2 x USB 3.0/2.0 ports at the rear panel (blue)

ASMedia USB 3.0 Hubs - support ASUS USB 3.0 Boost
- 8 x USB 3.0/2.0 ports at rear panel (blue)

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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by caral » Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:27 pm

Yes on USB hubs.
I am using a MacPro which comes with zero USB ports and 4 Thunderbolt ports.
So I have 3 powered hubs that extend Thunderbolt to USB & Display ports for monitors. On 2 of them I hang off a P-link USB 3.0 7 port hub. They also are powered and each has 2 additional Fast Charge ports (power only) which are handy.
With that set up I currently have 16 connected USB devices, with 5 open for expansion/ portable drives, etc. My audio interface is a Quantum (thunderbolt connected) so the USB is primarily for drives, USB MIDI keyboards and other controllers,
I've only had one issue with a daisy-chained USB device (during a firmware update), but other that that I haven't had an issues with latency or other weirdness.
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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by jdstamper » Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:22 pm

Wow Mike, you've got a really robust hub set-up. I find that very interesting indeed, and yes I definitely had planned on using powered hubs.

Rick & Brad ... I'm thinking I'd like to move away from the big old MB / big old tower PCs. With USB3 speeds being "fast enough" I don't think I need to have everything in the box any more, although I recognize the efficiency of that, as that's what I've been doing for (?) decades now :D . But I think the future is more small form factor with external components, I'd like to have a nice quiet SFF PC or laptop right there on the desk in front of me, and not have to crawl underneath every time I want to move a cable, etc.

I've done some experimenting with an external 7200RPM HDD connected via USB3, and I don't see much difference in speed. Change that HDD to an SSD as they continue to get cheaper, it should be plenty fast, I hope. Actually I think it's becoming pretty common based on what I've been reading.
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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by BradGray » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:31 pm

jdstamper wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:22 pm
Wow Mike, you've got a really robust hub set-up. I find that very interesting indeed, and yes I definitely had planned on using powered hubs.

Rick & Brad ... I'm thinking I'd like to move away from the big old MB / big old tower PCs. With USB3 speeds being "fast enough" I don't think I need to have everything in the box any more, although I recognize the efficiency of that, as that's what I've been doing for (?) decades now :D . But I think the future is more small form factor with external components, I'd like to have a nice quiet SFF PC or laptop right there on the desk in front of me, and not have to crawl underneath every time I want to move a cable, etc.

I've done some experimenting with an external 7200RPM HDD connected via USB3, and I don't see much difference in speed. Change that HDD to an SSD as they continue to get cheaper, it should be plenty fast, I hope. Actually I think it's becoming pretty common based on what I've been reading.
Hey JD,

There's a night and day difference from 7200RPM SATA drive and an SSD, or NVME. Running it via usb would work, but I would be surprised if it performed as well as having it internal to the system. I would consider read/write speeds of both scenarios for drives, to see if one is really better than the other. Also, multi-drive scenarios over USB. Do two drives still perform at the same speed externally, or is the speed impacted with two attached. I'm sure if you do some searches, you may fine some people who've tested it.

Personally, if all things for speed were equal, I would still place the drives inside the PC (unless it's a laptop). It's still better protection than drives dangling by external cables.

But fascinating idea. You have me thinking!
Brad

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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by RPaul » Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:53 pm

jdstamper wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:22 pm
Rick & Brad ... I'm thinking I'd like to move away from the big old MB / big old tower PCs. With USB3 speeds being "fast enough" I don't think I need to have everything in the box any more, although I recognize the efficiency of that, as that's what I've been doing for (?) decades now :D . But I think the future is more small form factor with external components, I'd like to have a nice quiet SFF PC or laptop right there on the desk in front of me, and not have to crawl underneath every time I want to move a cable, etc.
Don't underestimate the conveniences of the old tower (or, in my case, mid-tower) approach. While you do have to open it up for the initial build, and any time you decide you want to replace or add internal memory and disk drives), you don't have the extra rat's nest of cables like you'd have with 3-4 external drives in place of the internal ones, plus external USB hubs, and so on. And how often do you really need to open it up? I've done it maybe 3-5 times max in 7 years with my current system, one time being to add a 4th drive, another being to replace a failing HD with an SSD. Mostly it just stays closed. And the ability to do that sort of stuff means the ability to upgrade some components while keeping the others, whereas serious updates with a laptop typically mean getting a new computer.

Beyond that, though, there is the quiet factor. When I built my 2nd most recent system, back in 2006, I chose an Antec case designed for quiet, and it made a big difference compared to all previous systems. When I built my current system back in 2014, that case was no longer applicable due to some new requirements, so I had to look for another, again with quiet being a key consideration (in addition to the kinds of configurability I needed). I came across the Fractal Design Define R4, which is a mid-tower (I think the old Antec case may have been a tower -- I got rid of that system late last year after finally deciding I'd gone long enough without using it beyond doing Windows 10 updates every once in a while). While the Antec case was pretty quiet, the R4 took it to another level, while also looking super classy in a studio environment (not hugely important to me since, for the most part, no one sees it but me, but still an aesthetic benefit). You definitely would not get that kind of quiet out of a laptop plus multiple external drives. Maybe not critical if you're only doing instrumental music, but I track vocals in my home studio, too, and just having the ambient noise level be next to nothing (there's probably more coming from other aspects of the environment than the computer, especially if the air conditioning or heat clicks on -- I actually turn the A/C off when tracking vocals for that reason) is something that's hard to quantify.

I've got a laptop, and I bought one that would be good enough for musical uses if needed (with my main thoughts being either to run live softsynths or for remote recording), but I can't imagine using it in my studio, between needing extra keyboard and mouse (I can't stand laptop keyboards or trackpads), monitors (I have two attached to my PC), external drives, USB hubs, etc. An then there is the taking up of desktop real estate (my mid-tower sits under my desk). It might be different if I were frequently making music on the road and wanting to use the same system both at home and while traveling. I do know lots of people use laptops these days, though, so to each his own.

Rick

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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by jdstamper » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:22 pm

Brad, as I understand it the limiting factor with a 7200RPM HDD is by far the drive itself, whether it's connected via USB3 or internal SATA. So if 7200RPM is fast enough as internal, it should be about the same with USB3. And SSD, even better.

I think there are a lot of DAW users who already keep their working projects & samples on external drives (USB3 or Thunderbolt) ... both HDD and SSD drives, while the internal drive contains only the OS and programs.

If you want you can get pretty sophisticated with safety by setting up an array of external drives in a RAID configuration, and with external drives you can swap them in & out with ease, or put them all in a drive cage for mass storage I know you can do much the same thing inside the box, including hot swappable drives. But I'm interested in moving away from the big old hot & heavy tower. I like the idea of having a PC distributed into smaller components. I may still end up with a big old tower once again, but it's time to take a fresh look at the options. This discussion is helpful.

The way things are going the DAW workstation of the future will likely just be a phone, with some kind of high speed bluetooth to a widescreen monitor, keyboards, guitars, mics and any other devices still required. :D
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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by jdstamper » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:30 pm

Rick, I get it. I've been using towers for years for all the same reasons. I'm right now using a tower PC that I had locally built in 2010! 2010! I never thought I'd get 11 years of use, and it's still working so well, that I could easily keep it a few more years. But the technology for external drives has come a long long way, so It's time for a fresh look, and to think outside the box (ouch bad pun).

Thanks, Jim
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Re: I Need 10 USB Ports!

Post by BradGray » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:02 am

jdstamper wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:22 pm
Brad, as I understand it the limiting factor with a 7200RPM HDD is by far the drive itself, whether it's connected via USB3 or internal SATA. So if 7200RPM is fast enough as internal, it should be about the same with USB3. And SSD, even better.

I think there are a lot of DAW users who already keep their working projects & samples on external drives (USB3 or Thunderbolt) ... both HDD and SSD drives, while the internal drive contains only the OS and programs.

If you want you can get pretty sophisticated with safety by setting up an array of external drives in a RAID configuration, and with external drives you can swap them in & out with ease, or put them all in a drive cage for mass storage I know you can do much the same thing inside the box, including hot swappable drives. But I'm interested in moving away from the big old hot & heavy tower. I like the idea of having a PC distributed into smaller components. I may still end up with a big old tower once again, but it's time to take a fresh look at the options. This discussion is helpful.

The way things are going the DAW workstation of the future will likely just be a phone, with some kind of high speed bluetooth to a widescreen monitor, keyboards, guitars, mics and any other devices still required. :D
You are absolutely correct. 7200RPM in the modern day sucks (full stop). Use as a mass storage drive is great, as the price per Mb is far lower than SSD or NVME. I would not really use one for any other purpose than that. I have one in my system for session and system backups, and other files that do not require lots of read/write operations - more just write and store operations.

Now with regards to USB 3.x standards being able to support the speeds of the newer drives, doing more searching it does seem like a viable option for sure. You will pay more for the additional enclosure that comes with it, but that's the main drawback that I've seen. With regards to RAID, I'm not sure how RAID would perform over USB. It would depend on the RAID being used and the controller software that's driving it.

Personally, my next system will still be a dedicated tower as you will always get more power in a tower vs laptop, for the same price, and easy to add to it. I will have the main drives internal, but I may do some small hybrid for external too as off site storage is always the best way to handle data backups.

Anyway, when you're done post a pic of your rig!

Cool thread!
Brad

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